Wilf

There have been quite a few people struggling to get work in Oz. There may well be some in NZ too, even if they do not post. Megalania has made the suggestion that a new thread is started for opnions on how poms can get employed. It seems to me an excellent idea. This thread would be even better if it only had opinions from those who have lived and got jobs here (or made their own) and so while all opinions are welcome in my opinion and I dislike the ban it brigade on here, would this thread not be more useful if it oly had the opinions of people who have emigrated already? See how it goes anyway. I would urge all those who have got jobs here, or made their own, to add a few words of advice and then, at the end, perhaps the thread will be useful as a source of opinions from those with some experience of a topic that, though it is dismissed by some, is crucial to success here or in NZ for most. Let us all not worry about being "balanced" - just let's give our view straight and it may be of some use.

My contribution if you want to be employed as opposed to self-employed:

In Oz (and, from what I know, in NZ too) there is much more emphasis on personal communication. I would not waste my time trying to get a job using applications sent in an envelope to adverts seen on boards, papers, webpages, etc., no matter how "high falutin" the job. You are a pom and that means that though the Ozzies and Kiwis can go this route, you cannot.

I believe that most of the jobs here (especially white collar jobs for which there is competiton) are given to a friend of friend before your application even arrives on their doorstep and so it is no reflection on you when you get knocked back. Do not bother to think "But I have all this great experience, certificates, etc" - they are not as bothered about that as "What are you like as a person".

The only way for a pom with no connections to break into all this is to be bolder than you have ever been. See something you like in the paper (again, however good a job it is - I say the same to labourers as to architects) and give them a ring before you even bother applying. Ask to come and have a look round. If they seem shy or knock you back, press them for it - keep it all friendly and open (big smiles on your face). Just say that you would love to just visit and meet them to see the place. You will be surprised that even good and posh places will give in. Then you have one up on the others. When you visit, chat them up a bit. Say how much you can do, sure, but remember this is all about personality, not certificates. Now when your application arrives, you are not just a pom but a person and Ozzies give jobs to people not poms on a piece of paper. If they knock you back, and you get no interview, get straight on the phone, and say "Can I be the one extra to be seen?", say how keen you are, how perfect you are, how brave you are for coming all this way. Keep on at them (in a friendly way) and see how you go. If they refuse, **** them and move onto the next job you are interested in and repeat this "friendly but insistent" approach. If you do this for every job, you will get one. Go for your favoruite jobs, not some rubbish you don't really want - be bold from the start and when it works, you will end up with a good job not a bad one.

For those who hate the sound of all this - sorry, I genuinely believe it is the only way you can get a job (as opposed to making your own) that is any good in Oz. Otherwise you will just get the cast offs that Ozzies do not want or where there are terrible shortages - OK for people like me in trades, or nurses. Not so good for IT and other white collar workers.

dotty

1. take what you can at first, it shows you are willing. Employers will look favourably at someone who got off the plane and worked rather than came and chewed up centerlink.

2. There is heaps of casual work which will give you plenty of time to look for something better.

3. Face the obvious fact, nobody in OZ owes you a job, you have to work back up the contacts, experience ladder.

4. Look at the area you are going to. Does a beach town need IT constultants? for example.

5. Forget that OZ is cheap to live in. Thats correct when you see our prices in pounds, not so in dollars, so many people have tried to tell you that.

6. Be brave, market what you do yourself.

7. Stop worrying about all this if you are into Construction Trades (Qualified is the key work here), Hospitality industry, Nursing, Childcare, Aged carer, Lawn mowing, Fencing contractor these jobs are in high demand and hopefully someone else will post more.

owieb

For IT workers in/coming to Perth.

Start before you come. Make contacts with agencies and companies, if you are coming out on a reccy, then go and see them whilst you're here and make some contacts. When you return home, keep in touch with the them, keep them informed of when you will be arriving and what work you are looking for.

Don't waste time applying for jobs online, you need to sit down in front of people and tell them how good you are and what you have to offer.

A lot of the IT work is in government and the application process is long winded, which means that you could apply prior to leaving the UK and have a job upon arrival.

I found only about 3 agencies that would take the time to meet me when I came out, but I was persistant and got some good contacts. I kept in touch whilst back in the UK and was filling in application forms for jobs whilst at Singapore airport!

I had an interview within a few days of arriving and started work after about a week.

The other option is to bring UK work over. I spent a year working in Perth for the government whilst buidling up my work from the UK. The ability to undercut the UK market is a great advantage. The cost of living is high when earning $, but add some pommie pounds and that changes!

I'm now working from home on UK work and consulting to the government to ensure that I keep in the Perth market.

I am currently looking for some experienced .NET developers, so drop me a line if you think you have the skills!

Hope this helps.

renth

This is a great thread.

Wilf is right on the way to approach potenital employers.

I agree with Dotty but not Wilf on the take whatever you can at first approach, it not only shows determination but brings in the cash and keeps you from getting too down when you still haven't got that "dream" job 6 months in.

Don't forget though, there are plenty of public sector jobs where the approach has to be more formal and transparent.

All of these require responses to Selection Criteria which is an art in itself, you really have to know how to do it. People go on courses to learn how to do this.

You then have a panel interview where people in the panel can't participate if they know you.

But as Dotty said - nurses, brickies, plumbers etc will be laughing.

Renth

renth

Have a look at Intersector which has the Government jobs in WA;

http://www.dpc.wa.gov.au/psmd/intersector/index.html

I would take issue with owieb here though, you could apply in the UK but you would still need to be here for an interview.

owieb, did you need an interview or are you working as a contractor or some other role that doesn't need the formal interview process?

amaslam

Hi:

I don't think it's just Poms (I'm a Yank). I work for a large multinational and spent last saying how much I'd like to work in Asia-Pacific (been with the company for 3 yrs at that point with good solid work reviews). When I went on holiday to AU last December I stopped by the local branch office.

Looks like my voicing off last year paid off, because manager in US spoke to manager in AU and I was given impromptu interview on the spot.

I guess they liked what I said, I'm moving to Sydney on October 1.

I've looked at the market. It's always tight. I'm happy I didn't have to look for the job from scratch because I doubt I would've done as well (money wise or job wise).

It's IT work (permanent position).

owieb

Hi Renth,

I went through the process you described, responding to the request for tender, including the selection criteria responses. I was doing this before I left the UK and whilst sitting at Singapore airport waiting for my connecting flight!

Once I arrived in Perth I then had an interview and everything went from there.

What I'm trying to say is that the process takes time and if people are aware of when you are arriving it is possible to get applying whilst still in the UK and arrange interviews for when you arrive.

I agree with you that it would be very difficult to get a government job without an interview, infact probably impossible.

Kiwipaul

Since I've been contracting out here (IT) all but one of my jobs (Auckland and Brisbane) has been obtained through agencies and most of the agencies are cr*p. They generally will not put you forward for a job until they have met you and assesed you themselves.

They will also assure you they have loads of jobs available and you are mana from heaven for the positions they have available, and you'll be working in no time, but it's bullsh*t most of the time.

The only agency that has consistently found me work is Candle in both Auckland and Brisbane (e mail me if you want name and contact no) though I join every agency I can find when looking for another contract.

NEVER pay an agency to find you work as they are a CON.

One year (1998) I had about 5 different contracts over a 9 month period lasting from 1 week to 3 months. All these contracts were found for me by Candle.

My last year in NZ I decided I was too dependant on Candle and so tried every agency except Candle when looking for my final contract and after 4 weeks no joy, contacted Candle and was working in no time.

Just my experience for what it's worth.

dracupg

Arrived in Sydney in January and the IT market was dead. I am a Project Manager with 15 years in the financial sector. I keep hearing that there is 20% unemployment in the IT sector, but not sure if that is a reliable figure. Had very few interviews. You need to get in the agencies faces a bit. Keep phoning them. Go round to see them. Don’t expect any response to e-mail submissions of a CV via Jobnet or the like. Contact companies directly, rather than using the agencies. Some companies have preferred suppliers, so don’t be afraid to register with multiple agencies. A lot of the agency jobs will not be real and will only exist to get CVs in. Expect the “the client has withdrawn this position� response. A lot of roles will be filled before they hit the agencies. Use any contacts you have. If you don’t have any contacts, get some. Don’t be afraid to cold call IT Heads & Managers and ask them out for a coffee just to get their advice. Try to avoid the HR route into a company. Be prepared to be flexible.

garrisondamn

Here in NZ, the trend seems to be that they like face to face contact, rather than "stab in the dark" letters to potential employers.
They say "It's the squeaky wheel that gets oiled" & this is very true. Visit work places, introduce yourself, get yourself noticed! They also like the "can do" attitude! You can go insane writing dozens of letters & enclosing CV's to press ads, save the forests! lol.

How many jobs back in the UK did you get as a result of an ad in the paper? If like me, not many, if any! Most of the jobs advertised in the press usually have been spoken for before they get out, it's just their legal obligation.

Most of the time, my employment has been through word of mouth & when you are the new kid in town, you don't get to hear word of mouth, you have to be "out there" for that!

Knock on doors or do the Norman Tebitt! they will respect you for it, I know, I've done it & it has paid off, maybe to the extent that I will now get the job I wanted!

smithone

Wilf

Good thread you've started. Here's my experience of getting a job in the IT sector in Auckland.

1) Start before you arrive - ask all your friends, family, work contacts for the names of people they know in Auckland.

They may not work in the sector that you want to work in but they may no someone that does. Give them a call when you arrive and tell them what you're upto and see if they know anyone in your chosen sector. If they do then call them and say 'Hi I'm a friend of Bob and he said I should give you call"

The person you speak to may not have the authority to hire you so make sure you find out who does.

2) Direct approach - get on the phone and talk directly to the person you've identified as the decision maker. Don't leave voicemails and wait for people to call you back. Persevere and keep calling until you get through.

Once you speak to them outline what you are looking for. If they're not hiring then ask their advice on other companies to approach and also the names of suitable contacts. Always aim to get something out of the call even if its the name of someone else to call.

My experience is that the Kiwis welcome a call as it shows you're doing something about your unemployed status. Nobody was rude to me and people were quite happy to give me other contacts Eg I rang the MD of Microsoft (he answered the call directly) we talked for a while and it became apparent there were no jobs for me at Microsoft.

I asked if he knew if anyone else was hiring and se suggested another company and gave me a contact name. When I called the other company I had the perfect intro "Hi there, so and so from Microsoft suggested I call you" This immediately gave me credibility as it implied I knew the MD of Microsoft. the fact of the matter was that I'd had a 5 min conversation with him.

3) Agencies - you have to do the rounds and register with them in case they are recruiting for your ideal job but I found them to be very client focused and do not actively promote you to prospective clients. Useful for practising your interview skills but not much else for me.

4) Newspapers - again check them out but a lot of jobs are filled before they get to the ad stage.

Overall the Networking route was the one that unearthed the most opportunities. I hated cold calling but you have to force yourself to do it and unearth those jobs before they get advertised.

Another bit of advice is not to take some time off from job hunting. Get yourself a mobile and spend 3/4 days a week job hunting and get out and do stuff that you won't have the chance to do when you start work.

In the end I was job hunting for about 6 weeks and the job I got was adverstised in the Herald.

Good luck to all prospective Job hunters and if anyone is looking for more detail on contacts in the IT sector then please send me a PM.

bondipom

Definateley agree with you with your points. Networking is the way forward. I got in here on contract through contacts of my old boss. I was then offered a permanent position on my contracting performance.

Doing a couple of short term contracts is also a useful way of building some contacts and building some local references.

Be careful of going mad signing up with agencies. There are a few sharks out there.

Florida_03

All good advice. I had a farewell lunch the other day with a friend of mine. A technology consultant with over 30 years experience. He's now doing pro bono for an engineering firm in Brisbane just in the hope of getting a long-term contract. He once employed over 30 in his consulting business on the Gold Coast. He told me he is now desperate.

Should we keep reinventing ourselves? Engineering consultant today, lawn-mowing franchisee the next? It would seem that employees and their invested skills are as disposable as any other consumer item.

debsy

[7. Stop worrying about all this if you are into Construction Trades (Qualified is the key work here), Hospitality industry, Nursing, Childcare, Aged carer, Lawn mowing, Fencing contractor these jobs are in high demand and hopefully someone else will post more. [/QUOTE]

Dotty
I hope that you are right. My husband works in Hospitality in a Hotel as a General Manager and I have been getting really worried about him getting a job. We are heading for the Gold Coast or maybe even Sunshine.

Debs

theguitardoctor

Just to add my two pence .... here in NZ, employers and agencies have of late had a shift in their attitude towards employing Poms on a work permit - I guess it's due to the policy change from immigration a couple of weeks ago, that removed the Gen Skill route. The best we can hope for is temp work we've been told by dozens of agencies and employers face to face and on the phone. We've tried Auckland, Dunedin, Wellington, Christchurch, Tauranga...you name it. The wife is multi-lingual, but there seems to be a complete closed mindedness from NZ export companies, who regard International trading as trading with Australia....erm, big wide world out there Kiwis' ever hear of Europe? Anyway, after some 9 weeks of rejections and other shit which I have written about on this forum, we've hung the whole thing and decided to head back to smalltown UK, where the wife had no problem being employed by a real international company. We didn't have PR prior to coming out - just a job offer that would qualify us under the GS route. However, with the announcement the job offer was withdrawn, and since then there's been no gains at all. Even my business which I used intended to use as a back up - LTBV lodged 6/6/03 - has now proved to be useless, as the NZIS section marked "Benefit to NZ" has also changed behind closed doors, amd basically if you are not about to emply Kiwi's in the 3 year window, then don't bother....

Big fat, f**kin waste of time the whole thing has been...we've been unlucky, losing both chances we had, and $30,000 to boot. Hope the rest of you have more luck...what I'd give to go back 6 months and rid myself of this emigration idea.....

Rich.