sackofspuds

From reading www.goingtouni.gov.au, people wishing to undertake a higher education course in Oz can, if they meet the residency requirements etc, get a HECS-HELP (previously just plain ol' HECS) loan for Commonwealth supported places. The Unis charge different amounts for each course.

In the UK, there are student loans to cover tuition fees and means tested grants available for living costs. Tuition fees are capped at no more than £3,000 per year from Sept 06. Parental income is assessed to determine eligibility for grants, so if the student and parents earn under £15k then the student gets £2,700 a year. People with earnings up to £33,000 will be entitled to a partial grant - see http://www.aimhigher.ac.uk/student_f...06_onwards.cfm

Can anyone confirm if I have all this about right?

Smartinis

We have a son who will probably be going to uni in Oz next year as we have PR visas, as I understand it the rules have changed this year for PR visa holders. He may be entitled to a comonwealth supported place if his grades match those reqiured by the uni which would then mean that he paid the same as a Oz citizen, but and this is the big BUT, he is NOT entitled to HECS -HELP, i.e. no loan entitlement, he will have to pay everything up front, neither can he have the discount for paying up front fees that an Oz citizen would get. He will only be entitled to all this once he has become an full Oz citizen. So it will certainly be a lot more expensive than here in the UK. The government are also trying to put the costs up as there is a severe funding shortage in the universities at the moment and they won't give them any more out of there own pockets!! So it could get even more expensive by thia time next year. Universities in Oz have depended on foreign students paying higher fees to keep going but these are now drying up apparently as other counties catch up.

Sorry if this is a bit depressing, we have three boys who will all probably go through this system, we will just have to try and make sure we get citizenship before the other two get there, or we'll be really broke!!!!!!

sackofspuds

I love depressing!

My kids are citizens already, so fortunately this HECS-HELP thing won't be a problem. They are also primary aged so no hurry!

PortJackson

And everything upfront is 4 times the cost i.e with commonwealth supported place yearly cost (paid up front) would be approx $6000. Without commonwealth $23000+


They are allowed to increase by up to 25% for next year so probably will

Smartinis

I know its really worrying but its just one of those things we have to face and fund for in the move, we could leave our eldest here, but we wouldn't even think of doing that. He wants to do Marine Biology and if he gets in where better for him than OZ, also he wants to come, and I couldn't bear the thought of leaving him behind, if he doesn't come now it may affect his visa as he'll be 18 this summer, he'll have to come and validate anyway but wouldn't like to risk him missing out long term. Also if he stays he'll probably meet someone really serious at uni, hubby and I met there! and that will complicte things still further, he already has to say goodbye to a girlfriend and that will be bad enough! His plan at the moment is that he may take a gap year and work to save for uni the following year, it'll also allow him to take his professional diving qualifications which should also help him financially in the long run. That wil also mean that he's one year nearer to his citizenship which may mean he only has to pay one year up front at full cost, but thats only if the rules don't change again!!!!!!!!

Ther are some things you just can't change and have to accept, and this is going to be one of them, I think fees here in the Uk will start creeping up now too now that the new fee structure is in place, I teach HE and its all terribly underfunded here too and the government will do the same as Oz and make the students pay the extra in higher fees rather than with government money. So I don't think at the end of the day it will make too much difference. I know where my son would rather do his degree, and it isn't here!!

sackofspuds

Crikey, you'd really need to be desperate to emigrate if you knew you'd be paying $23k pa for your child to go to Uni versus £3k in the UK.

Didn't know this. So in the UK, next year it would cost about £9k for a 3 year course. In Oz a supported place (assuming 25% rise) would be $23k for the same course.

Not only about $2k in it if you simply calculate the difference based on the exchange rate, but the average income in Oz is about $40k whereas it's about £23k in the UK. So, in Oz, a 3 year course is 57% of the average wage whereas in the UK it's 40%.

In the UK, most courses are 3 years. However, aren't they mostly 4 years in Oz, or am I getting even more pessimistic?

If my kids go to Uni the eldest will be going in 9 years time. A lot can change by then.

ABCDiamond

The actual average Australian wages, quoted in Nov 2004 were:
Overall Australian Average $50,013 (Male & Female)

Overall Australian Male full-time Average $52,856
Overall Australian Female full-time Average $44,928

These figures came from http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/c...5E3102,00.html but the story is no longer there.

PortJackson

Here is the info http://www.uac.edu.au/mya/uac/icc.html

be a citizen then and could defer payments

PortJackson

Some are indeed 4 years i.e social work 3 years in UK but 4 in Aus. Law can be 3 years in UK but 5 years in Aus. Arts and agood few other courses are 3 years in both places. Certain Sciences in both places are 4 years. However overall yes Australian degress take longer.

sackofspuds

Thanks for that. We are all citizens already.

saraliz

Just wanted to add that with the "up front" payment required for PR's, you only need to pay a semester up front at a time (rather than the whole year up front).

Quokka

Its the same going the other way. We are interested in returning to UK where my daughter would attend uni next year. Subsidised fees in the UK are based on 3 years continuous residency, so we would have pay full fees of at least 8000 pound/year. Residents of the EU get full subsidy.

Has your son researched the job prospects in Aus for his chosen career?
Its nice to do something you enjoy, but is there a living in it?

Badge

Another aside - I think uni fees are a good idea - it stops everyone from going for 3 years - doing applied basket weaving and just having a piss-up. I should know - I did that and it didn't do much for me career wise. I actually worked hard outside uni and did all the things that employers like, paid my way, but many just spent their grants on beer. In the end, I got lucky, my connections and networking did it for me - not the degree so I'm not bothered.

If you want a uni education, time has changed to more like the old days - only the top 5pc should be doing it - they are the ones who want it and have the ability.

Sounds harsh, but one of the worst decisions of the early 90s was uni for all. All of a sudden everyone was going, and then there were thousands of people with crap degrees all wanting to be the next yuppie and go on business trips wondering why applications were only being acccepted by the top 10 unis (etc). There are too many graduates I reckon. The Dutch have it right - get people in to technical schools or trade schools etc.

Badge

ABCDiamond

That's what they did in my day

We had Grammar Schools for some, Technical Schools for those with technical leanings, and Secondary Modern? for others.
It seemed to produce the right mix of people needed.

sackofspuds

Well, I went to Uni in 1982, prior to the big expansion in the late 1980s, so without knowing the figures I guess the top 20% went to Uni. I studied English & History because they were my favourite subjects. My mother had pushed me to do Law but I rejected her advice, to the extent that I had offers to study Law but turned them down before taking my A Levels and therefore voluntarily went into "clearing". What a mistake that was, but I was a rebel. "Arts for arts sake" was my motto.

As it happens, I missed the lowest Law offer by 1 grade in any event. However, had I not already rejected their offer, the Uni in question may have shown mercy!

I worked reasonably hard on my degree (bearing in mind that I believe there is and should be a social side to Uni) and got a 2:1 and the course prize.

Of course, since the abolition of maintenance grants there is huge pressure on students to choose vocational subjects. I for one think that's a sad thing. There's also huge pressure to live at home and study nearby. I reckon that moving out of home and living independently is part of what Higher Education is about, so I think this is sad too.

I'm not sure, but on balance I tend to agree that too many now go to Uni. However, I'd like a return to the situation where those that do go don't pay tuition fees and get a maintenance grant.

Of course, students in the EU can choose to study anywhere. From what I understand, this means that UK Unis have to treat EU students the same as UK ones in terms of admission. In practice this will mean that it will be difficult for the UK to be too generous. Of course, since very few UK students can speak foreign languages, they are unlikely to attend uni in, eg, France or Germany. The reverse is not true though, so the flow of EU students is is likely to be one-way.