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Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Old May 7th 2013, 9:13 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by Almo View Post
I think to some extent people see what they want to see when they go back to the UK. It sometimes feels as if people need to reassure themselves that they made the right choice in moving to Australia (and fair enough, I did too at first) and do that by looking for negatives everywhere in the UK. Equally there are people who see only the good because they hate Australia.

The UK has certainly changed in the last 10 years, as has Australia. OP, you have also changed in the last 10 years no doubt. If you want to go back for a holiday, do, but treat it as a holiday as much as possible. If you don't want to go back, don't.
I think it's a case of the cards that people were dealt come back to them.
I'm very sympathetic here : I see it as people who were disadvantaged in the UK struggle to see any resurgance as it would seem things haven't changed - for them. I tend to belive posters who talk about their villages in decline and that their families have not changed for the better. There are quite a lot of posters who just didn't have the same chances others got - and tell us that in no uncertain terms. I think empathy is important. Luckier posters have the luxury of being able to see many of the good points.
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Old May 7th 2013, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post

I think that there is a pretence that the UK is now classless etc - many people on this forum are at great pains to say that - but outside parts of the corporate world, it is still really where you went to school in many areas.
Please feel free to give an example.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:01 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by papilon View Post
Please feel free to give an example.
Pick many of the top flight Generals in the Armed Forces.
Many of the top programmes we see in the UK are headed up by former public school boys etc. Some companies in the city are still interested in 'background' whether you like it or not.

It's just not a level playing field and never has been. Put this in context though - it's not to say that doors are completely closed.

I've said it before - with a degree of cynicism - we've all been led to believe we are all middle class. Are we?

Bear in mind I don't have any vested interests or complaints....or gripes..
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:10 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
I think it's a case of the cards that people were dealt come back to them.
I'm very sympathetic here : I see it as people who were disadvantaged in the UK struggle to see any resurgance as it would seem things haven't changed - for them. I tend to belive posters who talk about their villages in decline and that their families have not changed for the better. There are quite a lot of posters who just didn't have the same chances others got - and tell us that in no uncertain terms. I think empathy is important. Luckier posters have the luxury of being able to see many of the good points.
Goodness, I don't think I suggested I didn't believe anyone and I don't think I'm lacking in empathy.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:25 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
hmm...ok but MT was a reaction to the 70s and JM her successor...

Most of those prominent New Labour polticians were 'elite' too.

You could argue we returned to a old style Tory govt because people were sick of New Labour - nothing had changed after all, and nothing will change next time either.
Except they didn't change back to old style Tory gov. Dave is really a social democrat and that's why he is hated by the Daily Mail and the right of the party. The other main candidate at the time Dave won the leadership was David Davis, he grew up on a council estate with his single parent mum. Didnt even go to uni until after he had worked for a number of years.
Davies is old school and after the years in the wilderness because of Blair they picked Dave.
Unfortunately times were a changing and some good old conservatism was what the country
Was looking for hence the success of UKIP.

The most influential man in Britain over the last 30 years is not from Oxbridge but Australia and Rupert Murdoch Is his name.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:33 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by Almo View Post
Goodness, I don't think I suggested I didn't believe anyone and I don't think I'm lacking in empathy.
I'm not talking to you personally mate!

I am just very careful to remember that some migrants over the years move to Australia because they have very great reasons, which are theirs and theirs alone, and have circumstances others may not appreciate. When people say their holiday was this, or that, or that their village they came from was like that, I tend to believe them.

Their's a bit of an attitude perhaps that people feel noone should be too hard on a country. That the UK must be great if only this was the case, or if someone did that. That Australia should be this or that...I've been on this forum a long time and I see the old explanations come up time and time again to sort of undermine people's decisions or experiences. You know, when I got back it's great, when you go back it's not....blah blah. A bit of second guessing the poster...most people make choices that only they can make. See what I am saying?

I am a great believer in the individual and self determinism. You make a choice, you have to deal with the outcomes of that choice. You come from a disadvantaged area, you think Australia will offer a chance - it's up to the individual, circumstance and a degree of luck. You decide to move back, well it all starts again... There are a whole myriad of factors and details we can discuss but noone can capture all of these when it comes down to each individual.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:47 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
I'm not talking to you personally mate!

I am just very careful to remember that some migrants over the years move to Australia because they have very great reasons, which are theirs and theirs alone, and have circumstances others may not appreciate. When people say their holiday was this, or that, or that their village they came from was like that, I tend to believe them.

Their's a bit of an attitude perhaps that people feel noone should be too hard on a country. That the UK must be great if only this was the case, or if someone did that. That Australia should be this or that...I've been on this forum a long time and I see the old explanations come up time and time again to sort of undermine people's decisions or experiences. You know, when I got back it's great, when you go back it's not....blah blah. A bit of second guessing the poster...most people make choices that only they can make. See what I am saying?

I am a great believer in the individual and self determinism. You make a choice, you have to deal with the outcomes of that choice. You come from a disadvantaged area, you think Australia will offer a chance - it's up to the individual, circumstance and a degree of luck. You decide to move back, well it all starts again... There are a whole myriad of factors and details we can discuss but noone can capture all of these when it comes down to each individual.
Fair enough, my apologies.

I very much understand what you're saying and you see it on this forum from both sides (UK to Aus, Aus to UK). I actually think we are saying similar things. The way you see either country is down to your personal circumstances, desires, dreams etc. You see that as, for some, a product of their experiences, while I see it as, for some, a product of their expectations. The outcome is quite possibly the same. Of course, not everyone falls into such patterns, that goes without saying.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:48 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by papilon View Post
Except they didn't change back to old style Tory gov. Dave is really a social democrat and that's why he is hated by the Daily Mail and the right of the party. The other main candidate at the time Dave won the leadership was David Davis, he grew up on a council estate with his single parent mum. Didnt even go to uni until after he had worked for a number of years.
Davies is old school and after the years in the wilderness because of Blair they picked Dave.
Unfortunately times were a changing and some good old conservatism was what the country
Was looking for hence the success of UKIP.

The most influential man in Britain over the last 30 years is not from Oxbridge but Australia and Rupert Murdoch Is his name.
Cameron is a social democrat? Is he? Have to admit, you've got me now.
And council estate Davis is old school? Did I read that correctly - despite his background he is still very conservative - this is the thing.

My view is that the forces of politics are fairly conservative. There were old school types and elitists in both Labour and the conservative party. e

Thatcher talked about conviction politics - I think we are looking for a new idealogy to hang our hat on....

I find it ironic that Cameron is a SD, yet much has been made of his background to the point he's been lampooned.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:54 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
Pick many of the top flight Generals in the Armed Forces.
Many of the top programmes we see in the UK are headed up by former public school boys etc. Some companies in the city are still interested in 'background' whether you like it or not.

It's just not a level playing field and never has been. Put this in context though - it's not to say that doors are completely closed.

I've said it before - with a degree of cynicism - we've all been led to believe we are all middle class. Are we?

Bear in mind I don't have any vested interests or complaints....or gripes..
But that is my point, some may come from public school or Oxbridge but not by any measure do they all or have to.
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Old May 7th 2013, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Yes, I think it was down to the 'austerity' thing. St Albans, old stomping ground was a beautiful thriving city, commuterville but still a great feel and definitely affluent. Was horrified to see the main drag with about half the shops boarded up and the rest were pound shops/betting/Tesco Metro. It was really fricking depressing. Other end of the scale, five miles from StA, my old home town which is very affluent was wall to wall fancy gift shops/coffee houses/'classic' (ie shite) ladies dress shops. There was nothing useful. It was just as depressing but in a different way.

Also whilst I've always been convinced that the driving where I am now is vastly superior to the driving in my old neck of the woods, I have never been so damn scared driving on any roads as I was the other week.

I know I was there for a seriously depressing reason and it was cold and shit weather most of the time so that may have coloured my view a bit, I was still really saddened by the change. Only stayed in that area of Herts so no idea what everywhere is like but if St Albans has been hit like that, I can't imagine what other areas look and feel like.
I will be supping cold beer in St Albans this afternoon,lovely town
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Old May 7th 2013, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
Cameron is a social democrat? Is he? Have to admit, you've got me now.
And council estate Davis is old school? Did I read that correctly - despite his background he is still very conservative - this is the thing.
.
Not so hard to understand Dave is naturally not typically conservative, more a Notting Hill elitist, windmill on the roof, eco friendly ride bike to work. If he was in Australia or USA he would never become leader of the main party of the right,

Davis is old school ie anti europe anti immigrant pro capital punishment etc etc
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Old May 7th 2013, 11:15 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by papilon View Post
Not so hard to understand Dave is naturally not typically conservative, more a Notting Hill elitist, windmill on the roof, eco friendly ride bike to work. If he was in Australia or USA he would never become leader of the main party of the right,

Davis is old school ie anti gay anti immigrant capital punishment etc etc
Gotcha!

It seems that Dave is more of a champagne socialist even er...just like Blair even...er...yet the knives are out for him as he went to Oxford.

We seem to have a whole swag of parties who basically...want to get into Westminster and they do that by being basically centrist..

I read the Independent and the Torygraph online. The Torygraph is full of people hating Cameron and in doing so coming over as conservative essentially. I can't work out whether they are tories, once tories, socialists who want a piece of the action, hijackers, haters or what!
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Old May 7th 2013, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
Gotcha!

It seems that Dave is more of a champagne socialist even er...just like Blair even...er...yet the knives are out for him as he went to Oxford.

We seem to have a whole swag of parties who basically...want to get into Westminster and they do that by being basically centrist..

I read the Independent and the Torygraph online. The Torygraph is full of people hating Cameron and in doing so coming over as conservative essentially. I can't work out whether they are tories, once tories, socialists who want a piece of the action, hijackers, haters or what!
Dave is getting it from both sides not old school tory enough for the right and because he is posh he is getting it from the class warriors. Rock n a hard place
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Old May 7th 2013, 11:43 am
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by Bernieboy View Post
I will be supping cold beer in St Albans this afternoon,lovely town
Granted, there are some damn good pubs there. Spent a great deal of my life in some of them.
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Old May 7th 2013, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: Have not been back to Uk for 10 years has it changed?

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Granted, there are some damn good pubs there. Spent a great deal of my life in some of them.
When i first came back to blighty i worked the door of The Boot,still my fave wee pub,will def pop in there today
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