Merlot

I have been watching the events of the last few days, the terrible bombings in London and the honouring of those who fought for our freedoms back in WWII.

Heaven forbid that as a nation we ever have to see us going to war BUT do you think that we would handle it in the same way as the generations that lived through WWII?

I have to say since I have come back to the UK I still can't get my head around the large pockets of track suited, work shy males who stoll the streets each day, never lifted a finger to work. Would these men do as my grandfathers generation and line us to enlist?

Would those lovely females out there, who have never worked and started breeding at an early age work in factories 16 hours a day to to their bit for the war effort like my Nan's did?

I see time and time again this culture is one of the reasons why many of you want to go to Australia. Do you feel that as a nation we have lost our community spirit or willingness to work together?

Until I returned to the UK I could not understand why you all wanted to leave, now I have a clearer picture. I am not going to say the UK has "Gone to the Dogs", I have said this before and I know this is not 100% true BUT it has really lost something, not sure what it is. Yes, there are many wonderful things here but I am feeling less and less "British" everyday.

Your thoughts?

Merlot

Amazulu

Australia has the same issues.

Merlot

I know after 3 years on the NSW Central Coast I had seen some humdingers of social problems, I wonder if when you move away you get rose tinted for the place you left?

I am also thinking for those that have never been to Oz, are they jumping out of the frying pan into the fire emigrating?

Are all countries in the world as bad as each other? After a short stay in Munich and speaking with a number of expats there, it seemed a more wondeful place to live - I was told crime is very low, the streets were safe and very clean, the country was run with efficiency.

M

MikeStanton

I haven't read such bilge in a long time and for British Expats that's saying something. It's a shame it's from somebody who should know better.

Where were you when the bombs went off? I was there. Many people were helping their fellow human beings. And it's got nothing to do with being British; it's a simple concern for others. There were many selfless acts of courage.

There was nothing special about our grandfathers' generation. It was the situation they found themselves in; Hitler had to be stopped. Go back further to WW1; perhaps many of them would have thought twice if they knew the horrors that were to await them. And while you're reading a history book, recall the huge divide between rich and poor in the 1920s and 1930s - obviously concern for fellow man did not exist across the spectrum.

I don't recall any history books commenting "As our boys go off to war, notice their conservative hairstyles and their sensible dress. No chavs here then".

If you believe that what drives people today - emotions, concerns and actions - is fundamentally different from yesterday, get an education. And while you're doing it recall September 11th, how the world responded to the tsunami tragedy and the horrors of Bosnia.

But if they do ask people to enlist, no doubt you'll be at the head of the queue.

Some people...

Pootle

You're back then?

tracey.d

Whereas I do agree with part of your post, I disagree totally with the way you always storm in guns blazing. Do you really need to be so offensive all the time?

Yes, the older generation found themselves in a bad situation, yes they had to stick together but I still believe that they had a more patriotic spirit that many Britons do today.

To say that people still have the same concerns etc. in my opinion is wrong. People are a lot more materialistic today than they were during the war years.We have many more opportunities available to us than ever before. Many people seem to have an "I'm alright Jack" kind of attitude. Maybe it's because the more we get the more we seem to want.

I deal with all kinds of people on a daily basis and I'm sure a lot of them would jump ship if the time ever came where they needed to enlist. This isn't just people from the lower socio-economic areas but middle class people too. I have to say that some of the rudest people I have met have been middle class. In fact, I believe you are quite middle class and more often than not quite rude . I'm sorry but I am only going by what I have read of your posts on here and don't know what you are really like. You sound like an intelligent guy.

The people referred to as chavs are, it has to be said very often lazy. They would though I believe probably be the ones to get up and have a go.
However, in normal circumstances a lot of them would quite happily rob you when you're down.

I was brought up in an area with people like this but I was lucky enough to get out. So I do know what I'm talking about. Every generation seems to get worse than the last but they're not all bad.

I believe that this is also what you are trying to say.

Tracey

jc_hoops

Yes, it has gone to the dogs, but in some areas more than others. Still very nice here in your smaller villages, but get into the bigger towns and cities, and "no" community exists. The people responding to help the victims of the bombs were not "youth" with there hoods still up, no, it was working class people, the type of people that would respond to any issue that generally required assistance.

I know you have these types of issues in Aus, but some of you miss the point of "why" we want to leave, in Aus you have more space, and you don't have to live in the crap areas if you don't want to. Here, we have no choice, because the towns and cities are to over crowded, and in London now, every building estate, flats etc, have to have about nearly 30% social housing. So you pay 1 million to be the next street alone from a bunch of refugees !!

London is seeing it's biggest ever move away from the city of middle class home owners, now if that's not a statement of the place going to the dogs, I don't know what is.

steandleigh

[QUOTE=MikeStanton]I haven't read such bilge in a long time

There was nothing special about our grandfathers' generation.


Shame on you. Have some respect.

mr mover

And living in surrey. What may i ask my little boer ,has led you to this perception ???.............. .... mm

possoms

[QUOTE=steandleigh] I think you read it out of context I think he meant there was nothing special as in they were not out of the ordinary nor different to us.

I wrote what i thought on the 'what makes britain great' thread and I still stand by it I think we do still have the great british spirit It has been proved this week.

Bix

Stanton = belligerency at it's best.

Why discuss a topic rationally when you can go for the jugular in the first post.

Maybe you should try some of your own team building exercises.

Build a 10 feet long bridge with sheets of A4 paper and paperclips.
Place said bridge over a ravine of 30 feet....colleagues can assist to hold it in position using skyhooks.
Walk on it for a distance of 20 feet.

Now I have to admit this was not my own idea....I did what all good management consultants do.....use other peoples ideas.

mr mover

But in the end, thats why good Management consultants .get replaced by better managment consultants, because your ideas are crap , and they set you up .............. mm

Bix

Merlot

Well thanks Mike for putting together such a well thought out post I asked for feedback, not a personal attack.

Why I brought up the war aspect was

1. I have just been to Munich and which I found extremely interesting with regards to WWII, the history written and the history that wasn't. I am from Jewish stock, my partner from SS German, so we both have come from differing backgrounds. History as they say is written by the survivors and no we weren't there, or London.

2. With watching some of the events of the last few days with regards to honouring our war dead, my question was has Britain changed as a nation? I hear from the older generation that fought the war that it has and for the worse.

What I am trying to work out is people attitudes, is Britain better or worse? Do we move to other countries as we seek something that has gone in the UK? Did I come back because of that? My questioning is more my own thoughts at this moment in time and constructive feedback is greatly received.

My OP was to discuss these thoughts between us in an adult way. It is NOT intended to cause any handbag slinging or name calling if that can be avoided. I have not put this on here to bring about a thread that will get closed.

I have had many conversations over the last year with those living in the UK, from all walks of life. The feeling I get is one of not feeling very "British" anymore. I get everyday from people I work with or chat to is how bad Britain has become - Chavs, dead beat people walking the streets. Has it really got this bad? Am I looking back on Australia only at the good points?

Any further comments I would love to hear.

M

Anne4Terry

Hi Merlot

We are well aware that Australia is not going be the land of milk and honey and that we are going to have to still work hard. But the one thing we did notice when we were out there last year was the sense of pride that the Australians' seem to have. They were friendly and chatty in the shops, asking us where we were from. As soon as we mentioned that we were going to emmigrate the response was always the same - "oh yes what a good decision. Beautiful place to come to, nowhere in the world better."

That coming from shop workers who, I assume, are not particularly wealthy financially (don't start bashing again people. I am going on shop wages here) but are very wealthy in appreciating what the country has to offer.

All too often I feel ashamed to be British like when we read in the papers about the drunken antics in places like Faliraki from the british tourists for example. I don't think I have ever read or heard about an Australian being ashamed to be Australian.

I do sometimes wonder if a lot of it is down to media coverage and reporting. It seems to be a national pastime here to knock ourselves. The Amercians for instance appear to be so full of themselves and full of confidence which I think comes from them believing in themselves, their country and their children and keep telling themselves that they are the best.

Perhaps Britain could take a leaf out their book and stop putting itself down. Perhaps Britain is its own worst enemy as far a pride goes.