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Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Old Sep 5th 2021, 3:09 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I do. Despite myself. Pretty distressing to see Australia so fragmented, especially State v States in such a polarised positions. There again after 40 plus years here, I guess I feel part and parcel of this country.
I think you'll find that the vast majority of Australians do care about what happens in every Australian State and Territory. A few people praising their own States while simultaneously slagging off other States doesn't change that.

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Old Sep 5th 2021, 9:12 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
I do. Despite myself. Pretty distressing to see Australia so fragmented, especially State v States in such a polarised positions. There again after 40 plus years here, I guess I feel part and parcel of this country.
I think you misunderstood my comment.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 1:43 am
  #93  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
You say you're a "health professional" but you have some rather odd points of view for one. You say you're giving up a life that has returned to normal to return to Sydney in a few weeks, despite the costs of flights and the mandatory quarantine period and the fact that the number of cases in NSW isn't expected to peak until mid October.
Case numbers and peaks in October? You keep focussing on the wrong thing. NSW will be well beyond the case numbers they are today in 3 months. So what? The vaccinated live, the unvaccinated die and we live life normally should the NSW government continue its freedom giving approach. If you think this approach is weird, which it seems you do, I would suggest looking beyond the Queensland borders at other parts of the world. Its only Qld and a few states in Australia playing this approach with no plan to let the virus in so you can live with it.

Originally Posted by Brisbannite

Come to Queensland, and continue to enjoy the freedoms. By the time the virus gets here we'll be well over 80% vaccinated.
Why is Queensland been lagging in its vaccination numbers? Because its like the deep south of the US. Too many rednecks. Rednecks won't be told by governments what to do, give them a bubble and let them live in it.

Queensland freedoms all hinge on keeping Covid out and +80% vaccination numbers. Those are very wishy washy variables. You don't even know if or when you can get to 80% vaccination, and you don't know when Covid will come in. Do you really like living under such uncertainty?

With so much certainty in NSW and so much uncertainty over Qld moving forward, why would anyone currently living with freedom and Covid in Europe want to move to Queensland when it can all come unstuck this week, or next?

Last edited by Beoz; Sep 6th 2021 at 2:27 am.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 4:14 am
  #94  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Case numbers and peaks in October? You keep focussing on the wrong thing. NSW will be well beyond the case numbers they are today in 3 months. So what? The vaccinated live, the unvaccinated die ........
Or clog up the health system so much that those requiring care for non-covid related illnesses can't access it.

Even with rising vaccination rates, you cannot completely ignore cases as they are a predictor of how resources will be needed.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Case numbers and peaks in October? You keep focussing on the wrong thing. NSW will be well beyond the case numbers they are today in 3 months. So what? The vaccinated live, the unvaccinated die and we live life normally should the NSW government continue its freedom giving approach. If you think this approach is weird, which it seems you do, I would suggest looking beyond the Queensland borders at other parts of the world. Its only Qld and a few states in Australia playing this approach with no plan to let the virus in so you can live with it.



Why is Queensland been lagging in its vaccination numbers? Because its like the deep south of the US. Too many rednecks. Rednecks won't be told by governments what to do, give them a bubble and let them live in it.

Queensland freedoms all hinge on keeping Covid out and +80% vaccination numbers. Those are very wishy washy variables. You don't even know if or when you can get to 80% vaccination, and you don't know when Covid will come in. Do you really like living under such uncertainty?

With so much certainty in NSW and so much uncertainty over Qld moving forward, why would anyone currently living with freedom and Covid in Europe want to move to Queensland when it can all come unstuck this week, or next?
Iceland did it, I'm sure we can The road to freedom
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 8:51 am
  #96  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Iceland did it, I'm sure we can The road to freedom
Iceland vs Queensland? Really? Hardly a comparison...
Iceland is a tiny island with a population of merely 400,000 and about 60% of those live in the capital. Very easy to reach those 80%. I would also bet that all people in Iceland have a passport as they frequently travel so there is also a strong incentive to get vaccinated.

Queensland is a huge state which is highly decentralised. Maybe Brisbane/SE Queensland will reach 80% - but to reach the rest of QLD will be a drag. Remember that the vast majority of Queenslanders have never experienced an outbreak which appears to be an accelerator in vaccine rollouts. I would also guess that lots of people outside the metropolitan areas don't even have a passport and they are quite happy to live in their bubble. I did some locum work for Queensland Health a few years back in rural settings - I can clearly see the difficulty of achieving that percentage outside metropolitan Brisbane...

And please take note - even at 80% coverage, Iceland is still having lots of cases. Mostly amongst the unvaccinated - and some vaccinated people but for them, the disease is mostly harmless and doesn't require hospitalisation. This is the mental shift that QLD and WA eventually have to manage.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 9:20 am
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

You've never been to Iceland have you?

"And please take note" I do. Regularly. Daily. I know very well what's happening in Iceland and I know the figures intimately. Helping out in a vaccination centre doesn't make you an expert on this disease.

Look. I get why you're upset.

Being prevented from accessing where you want in Australia is deeply frustrating. Try to understand that our PM dropped the ball on getting jabs in arms, saying it wasn't a race and muppets like Gladys aided and abetted him in his monumental stuff up by faffing around with partial lockdowns and confusing messaging.

Now we're watching in horror as NSW and now Victoria run a race that they appear to be losing, while we in QLD go from day to day to keep ahead of this thing.

"Has Australia changed during the pandemic"? Of course it has. The whole world has. Any health professional would know that.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 11:15 am
  #98  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Discussions where one resorts to personal comments really bore me - because then, it stops being a discussion exchanging different views and arguments.

Your comments "Helping out in a vaccination centre doesn't make you an expert on this disease" (never said I was) and "The whole world has (changed). Any health professional would know that." (I have already stated this in my entry post) are disturbingly condescending but I guess, it's easier to get personal than to come up with a valid argument. I am yet to hear one. I am not upset at all - it's called a discussion and everyone has the right to ask critical questions in a free society. So let's just agree to disagree.

Except on this one - I am with you on the fact that ScoMo dropped the ball earlier when stating that "It's not a race" and feeding complacency.
Regarding NSW: hindsight is a wonderful thing. But if you look at VIC, the attacks on NSW are a bit odd - Melbourne's case numbers are not going into the right direction either - despite Dan Andrews' implementation of a fast and hard lockdown. QLD can still head into the exactly same direction...
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 1:07 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Or clog up the health system so much that those requiring care for non-covid related illnesses can't access it.

Even with rising vaccination rates, you cannot completely ignore cases as they are a predictor of how resources will be needed.
Not necessarily. Switzerland as an example, similar population to NSW is having about 3000 cases a day and have less cases in hospital than NSW on a bit over 50% fully vaxxed rate.

The plan, should it work out, sees hospitalisations about where they are now on a much higher daily case rate, in NSW at least.

But that's the kicker for all countries now. It's not about the case rate, it's about the hospitalisation rate. What can it handle.

I don't have a problem is increasing the Medicare Levy for the unvaccinated to pay for their health either.
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Old Sep 6th 2021, 1:12 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Iceland did it, I'm sure we can The road to freedom
So did Malta, and Tasmania looking good too, but neither of these islands are Queensland.

I do note that the daily vaccination rate in Australia is starting to take a turn. Queensland and WA have turned for a while now, I wonder if this is the start of the end.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 8:18 am
  #101  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by physiogirl76
Discussions where one resorts to personal comments really bore me - because then, it stops being a discussion exchanging different views and arguments.

Your comments "Helping out in a vaccination centre doesn't make you an expert on this disease" (never said I was) and "The whole world has (changed). Any health professional would know that." (I have already stated this in my entry post) are disturbingly condescending but I guess, it's easier to get personal than to come up with a valid argument. I am yet to hear one. I am not upset at all - it's called a discussion and everyone has the right to ask critical questions in a free society. So let's just agree to disagree.

Except on this one - I am with you on the fact that ScoMo dropped the ball earlier when stating that "It's not a race" and feeding complacency.
Regarding NSW: hindsight is a wonderful thing. But if you look at VIC, the attacks on NSW are a bit odd - Melbourne's case numbers are not going into the right direction either - despite Dan Andrews' implementation of a fast and hard lockdown. QLD can still head into the exactly same direction...
Your opening comment of this thread was filled with condescension and passive aggressiveness. Comments like "Fortress Australia" and the obsession with zero Covid. Describing Australians as insular, fearful, parochial, racist/anti-migrant/anti-expats.

Accusing Queensland Health personnel as having views normally associated with uneducated Bogans is highly unprofessional and smacks of elitism. Then accusing those same professionals of being obsessed with zero cases, closed borders, not trusting anyone, not looking at what other countries are implementing, casual racism etc. is unforgivable. It was your decision to leave Australia in the middle of a pandemic. You knew the score when you left, you can hardly complain now that its difficult to get back in.

Then you go on to accuse Australians of lacking compassion, saying that they're unable to make rational decisions because they're living in fear. Are you flipping serious. Was your decision to leave the country rational based on all the facts at your disposal? I doubt it.

Then to add insult to injury you conclude by praising the hapless Gladys and criticising the science-based decisions in Queensland which have kept us safe, calling them "parochial rhetoric". Give me a break.

Do you have Australian citizenship, or are you still traveling on your German passport?
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 8:20 am
  #102  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Beoz
So did Malta, and Tasmania looking good too, but neither of these islands are Queensland.

I do note that the daily vaccination rate in Australia is starting to take a turn. Queensland and WA have turned for a while now, I wonder if this is the start of the end.
Watch this space.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 9:45 am
  #103  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Describing Australians as insular, fearful, parochial, racist/anti-migrant/anti-expats.
Sounds like a fair description of a majority of Queenslanders at present

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Then accusing those same professionals of being obsessed with zero cases, closed borders, not trusting anyone, not looking at what other countries are implementing, casual racism etc..
Sounds about right to me.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 9:49 am
  #104  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Your opening comment of this thread was filled with condescension and passive aggressiveness. Comments like "Fortress Australia" and the obsession with zero Covid. Describing Australians as insular, fearful, parochial, racist/anti-migrant/anti-expats.

Accusing Queensland Health personnel as having views normally associated with uneducated Bogans is highly unprofessional and smacks of elitism. Then accusing those same professionals of being obsessed with zero cases, closed borders, not trusting anyone, not looking at what other countries are implementing, casual racism etc. is unforgivable. It was your decision to leave Australia in the middle of a pandemic. You knew the score when you left, you can hardly complain now that its difficult to get back in.

Then you go on to accuse Australians of lacking compassion, saying that they're unable to make rational decisions because they're living in fear. Are you flipping serious. Was your decision to leave the country rational based on all the facts at your disposal? I doubt it.

Then to add insult to injury you conclude by praising the hapless Gladys and criticising the science-based decisions in Queensland which have kept us safe, calling them "parochial rhetoric". Give me a break.

Do you have Australian citizenship, or are you still traveling on your German passport?
I could continue to argue with you (as those words from my opening comments have been cited in multiple newspaper articles over the past few months - many written by Australians by the way and multiple personal stories from Australians) but I really don't feel like being personally attacked here nor do I need to justify why I temporarily left Australia so I will leave it at that. I am a dual citizen if that's important for you.
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Old Sep 7th 2021, 12:59 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I think you'll find that the vast majority of Australians do care about what happens in every Australian State and Territory. A few people praising their own States while simultaneously slagging off other States doesn't change that.

The next few months are going to be a true test of that SoS, especially when NSW and VIC start to open fully and permanently before Xmas.


In most other countries, the polarisation in belief re the approach to Covid is basically not geographical, more between individuals. Here it seems more State-based. So on that basis I maintain my belief that people are becoming more insular within their states and their reaction to what happens in other states. Save for the US which seems to have similar issues.







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