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Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Old Sep 25th 2002, 8:14 am
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Don
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Default Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Hi there forum, I hope you can give me a bit of information and be a bit generous with your time as I know that some info is on the immi.gov.au site somewhere - my excuse is they wouldn't let me download the skilled migration booklet just now! Some glitch.

We already have PR for NZ and are very happy to be going there, we want to live there 3-5 years and get NZ passports. Part of out plan is to spend a few years living in Aus too but are just a bit worried that the 'easy way in' door will close to NZ citizens - how likely, do you think?

So we are thinking about getting PR for Aus too. Luckily my wife seems to have the points but age and recent work experience will probably close the PR option once we get to NZ as she's going to take some time out. Points assessment:
Age - 34 - 25 points
Skilled occupation - Sales and Marketing Manager - 60 points (head of marketing for multinational, first degree + MSc + DMS + MBA, 8 years in marketing)
Specific work experience, 60 point occupation and 3 out of 4 years work - 10 points
English language - 20 points
Bonus points - Community language or AUD100K - 5 points
Total 120 points (Am I missing something?)

How long does it take to get skills assessment by AIM and how onerous is the evidential requirement? Cost?
If we do a DIY job, what do you reckon the complete cost would be? (2 adults, soon to be 2 kids).
Any recent guesstimates of Adelaide processing time?
Am I over-worrying?

Thanks for your help and advice - Don
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Old Sep 25th 2002, 9:14 am
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Originally posted by pleasancefamily:
We already have PR for NZ and are very happy to be going there, we want to live there 3-5 years and get NZ passports. Part of out plan is to spend a few years living in Aus too but are just a bit worried that the 'easy way in' door will close to NZ citizens - how likely, do you think?
Don,

No one can really predict if and when the "back door" for New Zealanders to enter and remain permanently in Australia will be closed. The "door" is less open now than it was several years ago, btw.

In any case, you would like to note that having permanent resident visas for both Australia and NZ may be difficult to maintain. This is to say that it's very difficult, if not impossible to satisfy both NZ's requirements for citizenship AND Australia's requirements for a Resident Return Visa.

Peter
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Old Sep 25th 2002, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

    >On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:14:22 +0000, pleasancefamily wrote:
    >Hi there forum, I hope you can give me a bit of information and be a bit
    >generous with your time as I know that some info is on the immi.gov.au
    >site somewhere - my excuse is they wouldn't let me download the skilled
    >migration booklet just now! Some glitch.
    >We already have PR for NZ and are very happy to be going there, we want
    >to live there 3-5 years and get NZ passports. Part of out plan is to
    >spend a few years living in Aus too but are just a bit worried that the
    >'easy way in' door will close to NZ citizens - how likely, do you think?

It's already partially closed -
http://www.nz-oz.gov.au

Nobody knows what will happen in future years.



    >So we are thinking about getting PR for Aus too. Luckily my wife seems
    >to have the points but age and recent work experience will probably
    >close the PR option once we get to NZ as she's going to take some time
    >out. Points assessment:
    >Age - 34 - 25 points
    >Skilled occupation - Sales and Marketing Manager - 60 points (head of
    >marketing for multinational, first degree + MSc + DMS + MBA, 8 years in
    >marketing)
    >Specific work experience, 60 point occupation and 3 out of 4 years work
    >- 10 points
    > English language - 20 points
    > Bonus points - Community language or AUD100K - 5 points
    > Total 120 points (Am I missing something?)

If you're aged 34 you will soon lose points for age, unless you apply
to DIMIA before your 35th birthday. You'd need a skills assessment
for this.

You'd also need to be careful about any 'date of effect' given by AIM
on your skills assessment - you would only be able to count work
experience after this date.


    >How long does it take to get skills assessment by AIM and how onerous is
    >the evidential requirement? Cost?


AIM assessment is difficult. Their definition of a manager is someone
who manages other managers, who in turn manage staff. More like a
senior manager or director in colloqial terms. If you're head of
marketing for a multinational it might be possible.




    >If we do a DIY job, what do you reckon the complete cost would be? (2
    >adults, soon to be 2 kids).

http://australianz.topciti-
es.com/migrationcost.htm




    >Any recent guesstimates of Adelaide processing time?

Nothing better than 50 weeks at the moment.


Jeremy
 
Old Sep 25th 2002, 1:09 pm
  #4  
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Peter
If someone already has NZ PR, and starts the migration application
process to Australia the same day they move to NZ:

Their Aus application will probably take a year and a bit.

When their Australia visa is granted it's possible just to validate
with a holiday in Australia.

They could then return to NZ and would have enough time to get NZ
citizenship if that's what they wanted to do within the 5 year
validity of their Aus migrant visa. A few points:

1. NZ expects citizenship applicants to intend to live in New
Zealand. What they might think on applying for citizenship if they
saw an Australian migrant visa in your passport I don't know. Maybe
it wouldn't be an issue if it was a few years old - after all, NZ
passport holders can go there anyway.

2. If you do end up at some point with Aus PR visa in your British
and a NZ passport too, you should always use your British passport
rather than your NZ passport to enter Australia. The reason for this
is that if you used a NZ passport, you'd get the temporary visa given
to New Zealanders in Australia - which would override and cancel your
migrant visa!

3. If they did go to Australia shortly before the expiry of their
migrant visa, they would have to accept travel restrictions between
its expiry date and whenever they could get a resident return visa.


Jeremy


    >On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:14:50 +0000, ptlabs wrote:
    >Originally posted by pleasancefamily:
    >> We already have PR for NZ and are very happy to be going there, we
    >> want to live there 3-5 years and get NZ passports. Part of out plan
    >> is to spend a few years living in Aus too but are just a bit worried
    >> that the 'easy way in' door will close to NZ citizens - how likely,
    >> do you think?
    >Don,
    >No one can really predict if and when the "back door" for New Zealanders
    >to enter and remain permanently in Australia will be closed. The "door"
    >is less open now than it was several years ago, btw.
    >In any case, you would like to note that having permanent resident visas
    >for both Australia and NZ may be difficult to maintain. This is to say
    >that it's very difficult, if not impossible to satisfy both NZ's
    >requirements for citizenship AND Australia's requirements for a Resident
    >Return Visa.
    >Peter
    >--
    >Visited http://www.austimeline.com/ yet?
    >Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Sep 25th 2002, 7:40 pm
  #5  
Don
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Originally posted by ptlabs:


Don,

No one can really predict if and when the "back door" for New Zealanders to enter and remain permanently in Australia will be closed. The "door" is less open now than it was several years ago, btw.

In any case, you would like to note that having permanent resident visas for both Australia and NZ may be difficult to maintain. This is to say that it's very difficult, if not impossible to satisfy both NZ's requirements for citizenship AND Australia's requirements for a Resident Return Visa.

Peter
Cheers Peter. I think we just want to 'ensure' the chance of 3-5 years great experience in both countries. If we lived the first 3-5 years in NZ, I guess we could qualify for NZ citizenship with permanent RRV status (which I gather *could* theoretically be revoked) and still be able to validate a PR visa for Aus.

Don
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Old Sep 25th 2002, 7:44 pm
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Originally posted by Jaj:
You'd also need to be careful about any 'date of effect' given by AIM
on your skills assessment - you would only be able to count work
experience after this date.
Jeremy
My wife got her promotion to Head of Marketing about 4 years ago - do you think 'date of effect' might harm her chances somehow? Ie could AIM give 'date of effect' sometime after her new position began? Etc?

Thanks Jeremy

Cheers - Don
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Old Sep 26th 2002, 1:38 am
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Originally posted by Jaj:
Peter
If someone already has NZ PR, and starts the migration application process to Australia the same day they move to NZ:

Their Aus application will probably take a year and a bit.

When their Australia visa is granted it's possible just to validate with a holiday in Australia.

They could then return to NZ and would have enough time to get NZ citizenship if that's what they wanted to do within the 5 year validity of their Aus migrant visa.
Jeremy,

I guess timing is everything when one intends to hold "dual PR status" so to speak. In this case, the expected waiting period for the Aussie PR visa to come through is actually advantageous to the applicant, as he/she can continue to chalk up the time needed to qualify for an indefinite NZ RRV or even NZ citizenship.

Peter
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Old Sep 26th 2002, 6:40 am
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Originally posted by ptlabs:
I guess timing is everything when one intends to hold "dual PR status" so to speak. In this case, the expected waiting period for the Aussie PR visa to come through is actually advantageous to the applicant, as he/she can continue to chalk up the time needed to qualify for an indefinite NZ RRV or even NZ citizenship.Peter
That's what I was thinking, too. Ie, get SOL assessment soon (validity, I guess, is unlimited?), then:

Arrive NZ to live/work month 1
Apply Aus PR month 2
Submit medical, police checks when asked (month 11?)
Get Aus PR month 13
Validate Aus PR (say) month 20
Get NZ passport month 37
Go to Aus to live/work (say) month 50-70

Cheers - Don
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Old Sep 26th 2002, 6:57 am
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

> That's what I was thinking, too. Ie, get SOL assessment soon
> (validity, I guess, is unlimited?),

It depends on which assessment agency you're talking about. Some are valid for 1 year (ACS), others may have no expiry dates (I remember reading that TRA ones are valid forever, but my memory may fail me)


> then:
> Arrive NZ to live/work month 1
> Apply Aus PR month 2
> Submit medical, police checks when asked (month 11?)
> Get Aus PR month 13
> Validate Aus PR (say) month 20
> Get NZ passport month 37
> Go to Aus to live/work (say) month 50-70

Just bear in mind that you'll have to enter Australia using the passport that carries your Australian migrant visa, and not your NZ passport (when you get it). Entering Australia using your NZ passport will cause your Australian PR visa to be void.


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Old Sep 26th 2002, 11:25 am
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Don
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

I popped into the Aus Embassy and picked up a copy of the migration booklet 1119 - best AUD10 value around!

I noticed that there is a comment on Family Sponsored categories - Skilled - Designated Area Sponsored: that the application stands a greater chance of success than Skilled Independent. Why's that - because it's not points tested? I take it it's just as long to process as the Skilled Independent?

(I've got a first cousin who lives somewhere between Brisbane and Sydney.)

Cheers - Don
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Old Sep 26th 2002, 9:09 pm
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

    >On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:57:21 +0000, ptlabs wrote:

    >> That's what I was thinking, too. Ie, get SOL assessment soon
    >> (validity, I guess, is unlimited?),
    >It depends on which assessment agency you're talking about. Some are
    >valid for 1 year (ACS), others may have no expiry dates (I remember
    >reading that TRA ones are valid forever, but my memory may fail me)


ACS assessments have a one year validity. Some are valid for longer
(eg CPAA are valid for 5 years) while TRA, Vetassess etc assessments
are valid indefinitely.

Jeremy
 
Old Sep 27th 2002, 4:15 am
  #12  
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

They are not keen on folks gettting citizenship and then hopping across the
ditch, although I don't know how they monitor it. You swear a declaration
that you intend to stay in NZ as a citizen for what its worth!

"pleasancefamily" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.com
...
    > Originally posted by Jaj:
    > > You'd also need to be careful about any 'date of effect' given by AIM
    > > on your skills assessment - you would only be able to count work
    > > experience after this date.
    > > Jeremy
    > >
    > My wife got her promotion to Head of Marketing about 4 years ago - do
    > you think 'date of effect' might harm her chances somehow? Ie could AIM
    > give 'date of effect' sometime after her new position began? Etc?
    > Thanks Jeremy
    > Cheers - Don
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Sep 27th 2002, 7:48 am
  #13  
Don
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

[SIZE=1]Originally posted by Ian Guy:
They are not keen on folks gettting citizenship and then hopping across the
ditch, although I don't know how they monitor it. You swear a declaration
that you intend to stay in NZ as a citizen for what its worth!
Well maybe I would be a (new) true all Black at heart but just fancy a few years Aus experience! Then come 'home' to momma. Same goes for Europe, I often fancy working/living a few years in Greece or Spain and that's a distant dream too after NZ and (hopefully) Aus.

Cheers - Don
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Old Sep 27th 2002, 11:37 am
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Jaj
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

But people can and do change their minds afterwards.

Some countries used to have laws that stripped naturalised citizens of
their citizenship if they lived outside the country for too long
afterwards. The UK, US, South Africa, Canada and Australia all fall
into this category, but the laws have been repealed - decades ago in
some cases (eg 1958 in the case of Australia, 1964 for the UK).

Jeremy



    >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:15:49 +1200, "Ian Guy" wrote:
    >They are not keen on folks gettting citizenship and then hopping across the
    >ditch, although I don't know how they monitor it. You swear a declaration
    >that you intend to stay in NZ as a citizen for what its worth!
    >"pleasancefamily" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >s.com
    ...
    >> Originally posted by Jaj:
    >> > You'd also need to be careful about any 'date of effect' given by AIM
    >> > on your skills assessment - you would only be able to count work
    >> > experience after this date.
    >> > Jeremy
    >> >
    >> My wife got her promotion to Head of Marketing about 4 years ago - do
    >> you think 'date of effect' might harm her chances somehow? Ie could AIM
    >> give 'date of effect' sometime after her new position began? Etc?
    >> Thanks Jeremy
    >> Cheers - Don
    >> --
    >> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Sep 27th 2002, 2:19 pm
  #15  
Don
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Default Re: Got NZ PR - what about Aus too?

Hi Jeremy,

I'm still thinking about your earlier comment: 'You'd also need to be careful about any 'date of effect' given by AIM
on your skills assessment - you would only be able to count work experience after this date.'

If my wife was promoted into her current position 4 years ago, do you think it possible AIM would give a later 'date of effect' and if I understand your comment correctly, does that mean she could only claim recent work experience AFTER this date?

Thanks - Don
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