Gillard is a true red
Jul 1st 2010, 5:21 pm
#76
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Gillard is a true red
You don’t seem happy with the fact she is an atheist. Is it just because she does not believe in god, or because she does not belong to a specific religion? For instance if she was a fervorous [insert a religion other than yours here] woman would you be happier because at least she believed in god?
I just think it's fanciful to believe, that simple because somebody says that they don't believe in God, that that will somehow make them a 'better' politician.
Jul 1st 2010, 5:24 pm
#77
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Gillard is a true red
I also think that it is good to have politicians with neutral religious views. Of course you can be religious and still be open to new ideas, and you can be an atheist and still have conservative opinions. But we know in practice which scenario is more likely to happen...
Last edited by iamthecreaturefromuranus; Jul 1st 2010 at 5:30 pm.
Jul 1st 2010, 5:29 pm
#78
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Gillard is a true red
What does that prove... probably not much... but perhaps its a point worth knowing as people seem to be saying that atheist politicians are 'better' than religious ones because they have a 'more balanced view'.
Jul 1st 2010, 11:35 pm
#79
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Re: Gillard is a true red
You could indeed.... but I think I'm correct in saying that none of the most serious nutcases of the last hundred years or so practised any religion. I'm aware that Hitler was supposedly Catholic by the way.
What does that prove... probably not much... but perhaps its a point worth knowing as people seem to be saying that atheist politicians are 'better' than religious ones because they have a 'more balanced view'.
What does that prove... probably not much... but perhaps its a point worth knowing as people seem to be saying that atheist politicians are 'better' than religious ones because they have a 'more balanced view'.
But the converse can also be true. Take a look at Tony Abbott - He believes that kids at school should undertake compulsory bible studies so that they have a sound knowledge of Christianity. What about if they are Jewish? Or Islamic? These are his religious beliefs, and yet he seems to place more importance in that than in developing a well rounded national curriculum that all children will benefit from.
And not to mention his dogmatic beliefs on virginity and the age of the earth... Can anybody with such views really be taken seriously?
I don't think that people are suggesting that an atheist PM will necessarily be a better politician - being an atheist isn't going to prevent you from making mistakes - but if the decision making process is not clouded by religious dogma, then the results should be more balanced and evidence based.
Sadly, Gillard does appear to be a puppet to the unions, which in my opinion is no better than being a puppet to the church, a puppet to the free market or to big corporations. But as we saw last week - you can't hold on to the top job if you don't have any support, so it's an inevitability of the political process that a national leader will be a puppet to someone.
Personally, I think I prefer the free market - it's motives are reasonably pure: Profit - so you know where you stand with it. Religions and insidious union officials are much less transparent.
S
Jul 2nd 2010, 12:04 am
#80
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Gillard is a true red
You are incorrect there. Just look at Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban or George Bush and these are only recent history. Iran and Saudi Arabia are religious states that use religion to suppress its people.
In a number of countries religion is used by leaders to justify war even though peace is supposedly the mantra.
It is not that Atheists are better or worse it is that when deep held personal views of whatever type cloud judgement and decision making. Julia Gillard has no religious views to cloud her judgement in that regard however there maybe other views that will.
George Bush let his views push changes on foreign aid and domestic medical funding banning support of abortion. He compared the war on terror to the crusades.
Adolf Hitler was more like a new age type with Pagan worship ideas.
In a number of countries religion is used by leaders to justify war even though peace is supposedly the mantra.
It is not that Atheists are better or worse it is that when deep held personal views of whatever type cloud judgement and decision making. Julia Gillard has no religious views to cloud her judgement in that regard however there maybe other views that will.
George Bush let his views push changes on foreign aid and domestic medical funding banning support of abortion. He compared the war on terror to the crusades.
Adolf Hitler was more like a new age type with Pagan worship ideas.
You could indeed.... but I think I'm correct in saying that none of the most serious nutcases of the last hundred years or so practised any religion. I'm aware that Hitler was supposedly Catholic by the way.
What does that prove... probably not much... but perhaps its a point worth knowing as people seem to be saying that atheist politicians are 'better' than religious ones because they have a 'more balanced view'.
What does that prove... probably not much... but perhaps its a point worth knowing as people seem to be saying that atheist politicians are 'better' than religious ones because they have a 'more balanced view'.
Jul 2nd 2010, 3:21 am
#81
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
Re: Gillard is a true red
Just one recent example: stem cell research. It is well known that the Bush administration put a brake on it, mainly because of religious views. And that happened despite the fact that USA is a modern democratic country. Thankfully Obama has reversed that policy and hopefully in a few years many of us will benefit from the advances in medicine that it will bring. 
Jul 2nd 2010, 4:33 am
#83
Pie Eater
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 770
Re: Gillard is a true red
Regarding the UK and Australia (among some others), laws are passed by Parliament. Parliament answers to a greater power (although more of a ritual these days), the British Monarch (the Queen). The British Monarch holds the title 'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England' and answers to God (or so they say).
I think religion does play some part someone.
I think religion does play some part someone.
Jul 2nd 2010, 4:44 am
#85
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Gillard is a true red
This is becoming more of a ceremonial and symbolic part of the constitution. When Republicanism kicks off again it will be interesting to see how secular the new constitution will be.
IMO Monarchy is as backwards as religion. Neither has a place in modern constitutions. That does not mean religious people have no place.
IMO Monarchy is as backwards as religion. Neither has a place in modern constitutions. That does not mean religious people have no place.
Regarding the UK and Australia (among some others), laws are passed by Parliament. Parliament answers to a greater power (although more of a ritual these days), the British Monarch (the Queen). The British Monarch holds the title 'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England' and answers to God (or so they say).
I think religion does play some part someone.
I think religion does play some part someone.
Jul 2nd 2010, 10:37 am
#86
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,442
Re: Gillard is a true red
Gillard is much further left than what Abbott is right by a mile. Gillard was the Secretay of the Socialist Forum which was an organisation that was set up by the Communist Party to infiltrate the ALP. The Socialist Forum was later merged into the Fabian Society which promotes gradualist collectivism or socialism by stealth. Gillard is still a Fabian today.
It's a bit ironic that we now have a Fabian Prime Minister, as the stolen generation which KRudd and the ALP apologised for happened as a direct consequence of the Fabian Society's eugenics policy.
Gillard's 'small Australia' policy also plays into Fabian ideals as does over inflated property prices which restrict home ownership and make people dependent upon the state.
I'm just waiting until the welfare system gets expanded. Then we'll really know what direction the country is heading in.
Last edited by Deancm_MKII; Jul 2nd 2010 at 10:42 am.
Jul 2nd 2010, 10:56 am
#87
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: Gillard is a true red
What are you talking about?
Gillard is much further left than what Abbott is right by a mile. Gillard was the Secretay of the Socialist Forum which was an organisation that was set up by the Communist Party to infiltrate the ALP. The Socialist Forum was later merged into the Fabian Society which promotes gradualist collectivism or socialism by stealth. Gillard is still a Fabian today.
It's a bit ironic that we now have a Fabian Prime Minister, as the stolen generation which KRudd and the ALP apologised for happened as a direct consequence of the Fabian Society's eugenics policy.
Gillard's 'small Australia' policy also plays into Fabian ideals.
I'm just waiting until the welfare system gets expanded. Then we'll really know what direction the country is heading.
Gillard is much further left than what Abbott is right by a mile. Gillard was the Secretay of the Socialist Forum which was an organisation that was set up by the Communist Party to infiltrate the ALP. The Socialist Forum was later merged into the Fabian Society which promotes gradualist collectivism or socialism by stealth. Gillard is still a Fabian today.
It's a bit ironic that we now have a Fabian Prime Minister, as the stolen generation which KRudd and the ALP apologised for happened as a direct consequence of the Fabian Society's eugenics policy.
Gillard's 'small Australia' policy also plays into Fabian ideals.
I'm just waiting until the welfare system gets expanded. Then we'll really know what direction the country is heading.
Abbott was reportedly "very aggressive, particularly towards women and homosexuals", had a "charge of sexual assault" (innocent), used "sexist and racist tactics to intimidate his opponents" and "kicked in a glass panel door".
"Tony used to stand outside the women's room with his right-wing mates and loudly tell sexist and homophobic jokes," he said.
Another ex-student, Peter Murphy, who described Mr Abbott as a "warrior on the Right" believes he was the one most responsible for creating the atmosphere of terror that reigned on campus in 1977."
(Reference: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...694611874.html)
Easy to tack together historical and current factiods to make an argument that doesn't quite match todays reality....do it myself sometimes
BTW, the coverage of the welfare system has already been massively expanded...by John Howard...
Last edited by fish.01; Jul 2nd 2010 at 11:09 am.
Jul 2nd 2010, 2:16 pm
#89
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,442
Re: Gillard is a true red
Andrew? Andrew who?
It's one thing to forgive the misgivings of student youth, it's another when they are still active today. Gillard is, by her own admission still a Fabian and that IS today's reality. Do a bit of research.
John Howard isn't the current Prime Minister of Australia. Right now we are not a welfare state however, who knows what the future holds. Would you like a welfare state in Australia like it is in the UK? Don't forget, every British Labour Prime Minister has been a Fabian.
Abbott was reportedly "very aggressive, particularly towards women and homosexuals", had a "charge of sexual assault" (innocent), used "sexist and racist tactics to intimidate his opponents" and "kicked in a glass panel door".
"Tony used to stand outside the women's room with his right-wing mates and loudly tell sexist and homophobic jokes," he said.
Another ex-student, Peter Murphy, who described Mr Abbott as a "warrior on the Right" believes he was the one most responsible for creating the atmosphere of terror that reigned on campus in 1977."
(Reference: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...694611874.html)
Easy to tack together historical and current factiods to make an argument that doesn't quite match todays reality....do it myself sometimes
"Tony used to stand outside the women's room with his right-wing mates and loudly tell sexist and homophobic jokes," he said.
Another ex-student, Peter Murphy, who described Mr Abbott as a "warrior on the Right" believes he was the one most responsible for creating the atmosphere of terror that reigned on campus in 1977."
(Reference: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...694611874.html)
Easy to tack together historical and current factiods to make an argument that doesn't quite match todays reality....do it myself sometimes
BTW, the coverage of the welfare system has already been massively expanded...by John Howard...
