Gillard is a true red
Jul 1st 2010, 8:19 am
#61
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Re: Gillard is a true red
You're adding an awful lot of stuff to the meanings of religion and atheism. In the purest of terms, religion simply means a belief in and worship of God or gods and atheism simply means a belief there is no deity.
Therefore, an argument could be made that atheism results in narrow thinking, as you put it, because people following this dogma have closed their minds to the idea of a God - even though the Bible has quite a lot of evidence for its credibility.
Therefore, an argument could be made that atheism results in narrow thinking, as you put it, because people following this dogma have closed their minds to the idea of a God - even though the Bible has quite a lot of evidence for its credibility.
Perhaps you should check up on Albania under Hoxha, where this was part of the constitution: "The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people". Certainly looks like "actions were taken in the name of atheism, forsaking the good of their country in favour of following their own doctrine".
And so are non-Christians supporting and pushing for the internet filter. However, not all Christians and not all non-Christians support the internet filter. It's as much a "Christian-supported proposal" as it is a "non-Christian supported proposal".
So you support religious public holidays now - I thought you were an atheist!! Paganism is a religion(s) too you know..
I couldn't care less where they came from and am not interested in the semantics. If a holiday is fun, democratic, does no harm then great. Would not bother me whether it was stolen from religion who stole it from pagans who stole it from farmers who stole it from.....
Last edited by fish.01; Jul 1st 2010 at 8:25 am.
Jul 1st 2010, 8:25 am
#62
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Her judgements for our country have more chance of being based on scientific reasoning rather than positions loyal to external organisations whose laws are often geared towards expanding their numbers, their power and their finances while actively minimizing their followers reliance on evidence based reasoning.
Jul 1st 2010, 8:33 am
#64
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Legally that's all correct, but unless I'm mistaken, and if I am I'm sure somebody will be along soon enough to tell me, marriage was at the prerogative of the church and a religious concept.
To claim the church has "nothing to do with it" is, frankly, nonsense.
To claim the church has "nothing to do with it" is, frankly, nonsense.
Maybe if you broadened my quote out to its full again it might make more sense "Marriage is a civil secular union in our democracy. The church has nothing to do with it."
The key point being "in our democracy" the church has nothing to do with it. Which is surely what we are discussing, todays laws in our country.
Suggesting I was trying to fool you all with the notion that the church has had no input into the evolution of marriage sounds a little straw man
Jul 1st 2010, 8:50 am
#65
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Maybe if you broadened my quote out to its full again it might make more sense "Marriage is a civil secular union in our democracy. The church has nothing to do with it."
The key point being "in our democracy" the church has nothing to do with it. Which is surely what we are discussing, todays laws in our country.
Suggesting I was trying to fool you all with the notion that the church has had no input into the evolution of marriage sounds a little straw man
The key point being "in our democracy" the church has nothing to do with it. Which is surely what we are discussing, todays laws in our country.
Suggesting I was trying to fool you all with the notion that the church has had no input into the evolution of marriage sounds a little straw man
Jul 1st 2010, 9:43 am
#67
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Not really. Just that all those who say that an atheist would be a better politician should consider one of histories most famously atheistic politicians.
One Joe Steel
I know it's streeeeeetching the point a bit.
One Joe Steel
I know it's streeeeeetching the point a bit.
Last edited by iamthecreaturefromuranus; Jul 1st 2010 at 9:52 am.
Jul 1st 2010, 9:51 am
#68
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Re: Gillard is a true red
OK, here's your full quote.... and I still say that to claim the church has nothing to do with it, is still, frankly, nonsense. One third of marriages in Australia are still held in church, which, by itself, surely means that the church is involved in the process for many.
"Marriage is a civil secular union in our democracy. The church has nothing to do with it. People can optionally sign a church register as well as the govt one but that is their own faith based appendage and nothing to do with the secular institution of marriage."
As you can see I fully recognise that a religious marriage is sometimes added to a secular one by some. Hopefully that it makes it clear I was discussing the fact that the official act of marriage in our democracy is totally divorced from religion.
Jul 1st 2010, 10:18 am
#69
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Her judgements for our country have more chance of being based on scientific reasoning rather than positions loyal to external organisations whose laws are often geared towards expanding their numbers, their power and their finances while actively minimizing their followers reliance on evidence based reasoning.
Jul 1st 2010, 10:28 am
#70
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Re: Gillard is a true red
You could go through histories infamous religious leaders and get equally rediculous figures that prove nothing.
Jul 1st 2010, 10:30 am
#71
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Re: Gillard is a true red
I'm unable to agree with "choosing to believe a faith forces you to close your mind to evidence based reasoning". For example, there are scientists who are Christians. Perhaps you would like to expand on this?
Jul 1st 2010, 11:21 am
#72
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Re: Gillard is a true red
I would guess that scientists who profess faith must compartmentalise their life...faith on the weekend, scientist during the week; some maybe only profess faith but don't really believe it deep down; or some maybe stick to matters that don't touch on sore points; or maybe even some who use their scientific knowledge to help formulate positions that support their faith that sound legit but do not stand up to wider scientific testing. I'm not sure how they really do it as it must compromise their reasoning at some point picking and choosing which science they will believe and which they can't because it clashes with the faith story of their choosing.
Last edited by fish.01; Jul 1st 2010 at 11:27 am.
Jul 1st 2010, 11:25 am
#73
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Agreed, not a fan of militant unions. Don't agree with the conservative broad brush that paints them all the same though....and I believe that Gillard is far closer to the centre of politics where we want our politicians than Abbott.
Jul 1st 2010, 11:36 am
#74
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Re: Gillard is a true red
Should I believe in Martians because Jo Stalin happened to not believe them. I would think some of those dictators who were atheist didn't like the church because they knew the church was in the same control game as them and they didn't want to share it.An atheist prime minister isn't attractive to me simply by being atheist. They have to be intelligent, decent person who tries to make rational decisions in the best interests of the country. Being an atheist is just one attribute that often contributes to that. They can't be an atheist and a tyrant and still get our support
eg Our prime minister should be able to charm a large crowd but that doesn't mean I would elect Hitler.
Jul 1st 2010, 4:19 pm
#75
Enjoying living in Perth
Joined: Jun 2010
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Posts: 24
Re: Gillard is a true red
Hello there,
First of all I think it is great because the prime minister and I share the same view on religion
I also think that it is good to have politicians with neutral religious views. Of course you can be religious and still be open to new ideas, and you can be an atheist and still have conservative opinions. But we know in practice which scenario is more likely to happen...
Just one recent example: stem cell research. It is well known that the Bush administration put a brake on it, mainly because of religious views. And that happened despite the fact that USA is a modern democratic country. Thankfully Obama has reversed that policy and hopefully in a few years many of us will benefit from the advances in medicine that it will bring.
You don’t seem happy with the fact she is an atheist. Is it just because she does not believe in god, or because she does not belong to a specific religion? For instance if she was a fervorous [insert a religion other than yours here] woman would you be happier because at least she believed in god?
First of all I think it is great because the prime minister and I share the same view on religion
I also think that it is good to have politicians with neutral religious views. Of course you can be religious and still be open to new ideas, and you can be an atheist and still have conservative opinions. But we know in practice which scenario is more likely to happen...
Just one recent example: stem cell research. It is well known that the Bush administration put a brake on it, mainly because of religious views. And that happened despite the fact that USA is a modern democratic country. Thankfully Obama has reversed that policy and hopefully in a few years many of us will benefit from the advances in medicine that it will bring.
You don’t seem happy with the fact she is an atheist. Is it just because she does not believe in god, or because she does not belong to a specific religion? For instance if she was a fervorous [insert a religion other than yours here] woman would you be happier because at least she believed in god?
