Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
May 11th 2005, 9:04 pm
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
Originally Posted by Parker
Thanks for all your replies. Will need to reflect on our decision to move and see if it really is the best thing to do.
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
Tenants can be a pain !
Is your house in an area that looks like it may drop in price ? Something else to consider.
May 11th 2005, 9:30 pm
#47
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 629
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
[I think that people who don't get off their a***e to get their kids outside in the fresh air won't change just because they are in a different location.
I didn't say my kids sit around on their a***s inside. In fact we are a fairly active family. But in order for my children to partake in a fair amount of sport I have had to find activities indoors. Consequently my youngest son does gym, my daughter dances and plays netball (invariably indoors because of the weather) and my other son plays rugby, football and cricket. They have all had swimming lessons - but it is not fun getting 3 children under the age of 7 all rugged up, drive to an indoor swimming pool in the dark for a 30 minute lesson and then repeat the whole exercise. There is also the cost element - have you recently looked at the entry price to a leisure centre for a family of 5 - our local one is £25! When I set off on the school run for most of December and January I have to use the car headlights! As a result of the darkness the children cannot come home and go and play in the garden. The cricket coaching season starts in May and finishes the end of July. Last year we counted up that they only got to train on 7 occasions because on every other it rained! Yes, we ride our bikes and go for walks but it is so much easier if you don't have to spend an hour cleaning bikes, coats, etc. afterwards. Don't get me wrong, I love the change of seasons here, and an English summer but it is just TOO short. And the weather is still the no. one reason why people want to leave this country. I want my children to be able to come home from school put on a T-shirt and shorts and play in the garden for nine months of the year.
My children have had an excellent primary education here in the UK and I really can't fault it except to say that I think there is too much emphasis on learning at an early age (and that may have something to do with the entrance exams that kids have to do at age 11 to get into a good school ie. Grammar or Private). In Australia there is more emphasis on socialising, teamspirit and patriotism. At the end of the day children need to be able to read and write when they leave primary school. My attitude is that the serious learning begins in secondary school. As someone has pointed out the govt. here does not contribute towards private schools hence the extortinate fees. We have looked at private secondary schools in both Oz and here and the one thing that struck me here was all the extras you had to pay for eg. trips abroad (Gallipagos Islands @ £3000), expensive transport, and nowadays it is not uncommon to find them contracting out of certain lessons eg. cookery @ £2000. The school we have chosen for our daughter in Oz offers much better value for money. With regards to standards the PISA study puts the standard of education much higher in Oz than the UK. Indeed more Australian students go onto higher education than here (whether that is a good thing is another issue).
There are 2 very serious issues which I believe are timebombs waiting to go off in the UK. One is pensions. I can't recall the figures but there is a very high proportion of young people here who have made no provision for their future. Yes, taxes are high in Oz but if you think that every person is putting away something towards their retirement this goes towards explaining why. I know for a fact that we could never pay our heating bill on the lousy pensions offered here.
The other issue is immigration. England has changed alot in the 13 years we have been here and it will only get worse because no one wants to face up to it. I recall reading somewhere that last year in Oz white immigration overtook Asian immigration for the first time in 20 odd years. You can't talk about it here without being branded a racist but I saw all this 15 years ago in Australia and whether you like John Howard or not, atleast he did something about it.
Any govt who takes on these two issues in the UK will have a very hard time of it, but it has to be done. There are going to be some very bitter pills to swallow.
And yes we will make it work. Just as when we came over here we arrived with a suitcase and lived in a bedsit for a couple of years with determination and perserverance we will succeed. If you migrate anywhere and expect it to be a bed of roses you are not being realistic. The benefits take time....
PS We are expecting 14 degrees again today and no I am not in the north of England or Scotland but the Home Counties. And for atleast the last 7 days it has been dry in the mornings and rain in the afternoon and for the last two nights we have had frost!
I didn't say my kids sit around on their a***s inside. In fact we are a fairly active family. But in order for my children to partake in a fair amount of sport I have had to find activities indoors. Consequently my youngest son does gym, my daughter dances and plays netball (invariably indoors because of the weather) and my other son plays rugby, football and cricket. They have all had swimming lessons - but it is not fun getting 3 children under the age of 7 all rugged up, drive to an indoor swimming pool in the dark for a 30 minute lesson and then repeat the whole exercise. There is also the cost element - have you recently looked at the entry price to a leisure centre for a family of 5 - our local one is £25! When I set off on the school run for most of December and January I have to use the car headlights! As a result of the darkness the children cannot come home and go and play in the garden. The cricket coaching season starts in May and finishes the end of July. Last year we counted up that they only got to train on 7 occasions because on every other it rained! Yes, we ride our bikes and go for walks but it is so much easier if you don't have to spend an hour cleaning bikes, coats, etc. afterwards. Don't get me wrong, I love the change of seasons here, and an English summer but it is just TOO short. And the weather is still the no. one reason why people want to leave this country. I want my children to be able to come home from school put on a T-shirt and shorts and play in the garden for nine months of the year.
My children have had an excellent primary education here in the UK and I really can't fault it except to say that I think there is too much emphasis on learning at an early age (and that may have something to do with the entrance exams that kids have to do at age 11 to get into a good school ie. Grammar or Private). In Australia there is more emphasis on socialising, teamspirit and patriotism. At the end of the day children need to be able to read and write when they leave primary school. My attitude is that the serious learning begins in secondary school. As someone has pointed out the govt. here does not contribute towards private schools hence the extortinate fees. We have looked at private secondary schools in both Oz and here and the one thing that struck me here was all the extras you had to pay for eg. trips abroad (Gallipagos Islands @ £3000), expensive transport, and nowadays it is not uncommon to find them contracting out of certain lessons eg. cookery @ £2000. The school we have chosen for our daughter in Oz offers much better value for money. With regards to standards the PISA study puts the standard of education much higher in Oz than the UK. Indeed more Australian students go onto higher education than here (whether that is a good thing is another issue).
There are 2 very serious issues which I believe are timebombs waiting to go off in the UK. One is pensions. I can't recall the figures but there is a very high proportion of young people here who have made no provision for their future. Yes, taxes are high in Oz but if you think that every person is putting away something towards their retirement this goes towards explaining why. I know for a fact that we could never pay our heating bill on the lousy pensions offered here.
The other issue is immigration. England has changed alot in the 13 years we have been here and it will only get worse because no one wants to face up to it. I recall reading somewhere that last year in Oz white immigration overtook Asian immigration for the first time in 20 odd years. You can't talk about it here without being branded a racist but I saw all this 15 years ago in Australia and whether you like John Howard or not, atleast he did something about it.
Any govt who takes on these two issues in the UK will have a very hard time of it, but it has to be done. There are going to be some very bitter pills to swallow.
And yes we will make it work. Just as when we came over here we arrived with a suitcase and lived in a bedsit for a couple of years with determination and perserverance we will succeed. If you migrate anywhere and expect it to be a bed of roses you are not being realistic. The benefits take time....
PS We are expecting 14 degrees again today and no I am not in the north of England or Scotland but the Home Counties. And for atleast the last 7 days it has been dry in the mornings and rain in the afternoon and for the last two nights we have had frost!
May 11th 2005, 9:46 pm
#48
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
To the OP, you also forgot to mention Drs bills (unless you have a good bulk biller) no free medicine for kids and no free dentristry (after year 6):scared:
Not trying to put you off further but i reckon forwarned is foramed and thats what this sites here for, especially now theres some real old timers about
Just a couple of things i've picked up on... the kids playing inside, well it happens here, in the SUMMER cos its too bloody hot and they can't be bothered to put sunscreen on AGAIN to go out for 15 mins before they're too hot again.
The dark nights,.... well it depends where you live but it gets dark mighty early here too, especially the further north you go. Going out after dark may be warmer but where we live its a blood fest if we dare go out without aerogard and long sleeved shirts etc so theres a hassel in itself.
Days out.... yep i can equate to £100, but for a theme park day out it will cost you the same in dollars here, ($100 plus) when you're earning dollars its the same as when you earn pounds in the UK ie expensive (i hope that made a bit of sense) The last trip to the cimema cost over $60 (forgot to pack some nibbles
) However trips to the beach are free, but can be unpleasant in the peak of summer!!
I am not trying to put anyone off or say not to come we love it here but where theres a minus in the UK theres usually one to match it here.
I can't explain what makes me love it here so much though LOL, we are worse of fianancially, miss family and friends, but somehow this is where we want to be. The bucket is definately shinier and i love it
Not trying to put you off further but i reckon forwarned is foramed and thats what this sites here for, especially now theres some real old timers about
Just a couple of things i've picked up on... the kids playing inside, well it happens here, in the SUMMER cos its too bloody hot and they can't be bothered to put sunscreen on AGAIN to go out for 15 mins before they're too hot again.
The dark nights,.... well it depends where you live but it gets dark mighty early here too, especially the further north you go. Going out after dark may be warmer but where we live its a blood fest if we dare go out without aerogard and long sleeved shirts etc so theres a hassel in itself.
Days out.... yep i can equate to £100, but for a theme park day out it will cost you the same in dollars here, ($100 plus) when you're earning dollars its the same as when you earn pounds in the UK ie expensive (i hope that made a bit of sense) The last trip to the cimema cost over $60 (forgot to pack some nibbles
) However trips to the beach are free, but can be unpleasant in the peak of summer!! I am not trying to put anyone off or say not to come we love it here but where theres a minus in the UK theres usually one to match it here.
I can't explain what makes me love it here so much though LOL, we are worse of fianancially, miss family and friends, but somehow this is where we want to be. The bucket is definately shinier and i love it
May 11th 2005, 10:14 pm
#49
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,063
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
Originally Posted by wombat42
As your heading for Tasmania you will still need the umberellas , macs and to be rugged up next to roaring fire. Gets very cold down there in winter.
May 11th 2005, 10:22 pm
#50
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 957
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
Originally Posted by Parker
Thanks for all your replies. Will need to reflect on our decision to move and see if it really is the best thing to do.
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
We are currently renting our house out as we are here on a 457 visa and had not visited before. When we get our PR (hopefully) we will probably sell so we can afford to buy here. We are using an agent for full management (11%+vat) and not too many hassles so far......touch wood!
All the best,
Pootle
May 11th 2005, 10:57 pm
#51
crazy, sexy,cool member
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: in my new big house
Posts: 1,527
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by Parker
I've always dreamed of moving back to Sydney since living there in 1996.
Have the visa booked the flights, and due to go in Sept. But now am having a panic and need to be reminded of why we are going and how great its going to be.
So encouraging words and inspiring tales from those who are there would be gratefully received!!!
Am worried because:
1. Costs seem so high - not remotely less than the UK. The more we search the more we realise that property and the cost of living in Sydney is comparable to the UK, even almost to London.
2. Taxes are higher. Salaries are less. So you earn less than in the UK, yet costs are the same or higher.
3. Childcare is impossible to find and is more expensive than the UK
4. You get no paid maternity leave. So you need to go back to work immediately after having a baby to a job that pays less to pay for your higher cost of living, and have to find childcare to take the baby and therefore your costs go even higher.
5. It seems from posts on this site that the school system isn't as good and most people seem to be recommending going for private schools so again more costs.
6. Lettuces are few and far between and cost the earth.
I am worried about quality of life when we both have to work all hours to earn less, afford a smaller place and be unable to afford to have another baby.
I know the sun shines and you can do lots of outdoor things which will be great for quality of life. But is there anything else I can cling to that will make me think that this is a good choice and move for my family?
Is there anyone in Sydney who can give me some inspiration and dispel my fears?
Have the visa booked the flights, and due to go in Sept. But now am having a panic and need to be reminded of why we are going and how great its going to be.
So encouraging words and inspiring tales from those who are there would be gratefully received!!!
Am worried because:
1. Costs seem so high - not remotely less than the UK. The more we search the more we realise that property and the cost of living in Sydney is comparable to the UK, even almost to London.
2. Taxes are higher. Salaries are less. So you earn less than in the UK, yet costs are the same or higher.
3. Childcare is impossible to find and is more expensive than the UK
4. You get no paid maternity leave. So you need to go back to work immediately after having a baby to a job that pays less to pay for your higher cost of living, and have to find childcare to take the baby and therefore your costs go even higher.
5. It seems from posts on this site that the school system isn't as good and most people seem to be recommending going for private schools so again more costs.
6. Lettuces are few and far between and cost the earth.
I am worried about quality of life when we both have to work all hours to earn less, afford a smaller place and be unable to afford to have another baby.
I know the sun shines and you can do lots of outdoor things which will be great for quality of life. But is there anything else I can cling to that will make me think that this is a good choice and move for my family?
Is there anyone in Sydney who can give me some inspiration and dispel my fears?
I wish you lots of luck in the choice you make, try not to let it worry you too much and look at it as one big adventure.
Julie
May 11th 2005, 11:21 pm
#52
da Bonehead
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Lion in da jungle
Posts: 22,767
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Parker,
Please remember one thing.
The way you and your family live and react to the UK is distinct to you.
The way you and your family live and react to Aus will also be distinct to you.
There is no right or wrong here.......mainly opinion.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in the UK.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in Aus.
Between the two some is the same and some different.
It's what you do, what you make of it, that counts.
No-one on here can predict that and of course you cannot do that either.
You therefore have the very difficult task of deciding if you want to try it.
Whatever you do I think it is best to regret your dcisions, not the ones you didn't make. If you feel Aus is not right don't be afraid to admit it and don't regret making that decision.
We only succeed if we work hard at something so if you feel it is right then go with it wholeheartedly.
A fact is that Sydney is an expensive place to live. If that is your major worry then look elsewhere. There are many cheaper places that can offer just as much.
.......
Now, if anyone can't find a shinier bucket it's because Badge & Hevs have mopped up the market.
Please remember one thing.
The way you and your family live and react to the UK is distinct to you.
The way you and your family live and react to Aus will also be distinct to you.
There is no right or wrong here.......mainly opinion.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in the UK.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in Aus.
Between the two some is the same and some different.
It's what you do, what you make of it, that counts.
No-one on here can predict that and of course you cannot do that either.
You therefore have the very difficult task of deciding if you want to try it.
Whatever you do I think it is best to regret your dcisions, not the ones you didn't make. If you feel Aus is not right don't be afraid to admit it and don't regret making that decision.
We only succeed if we work hard at something so if you feel it is right then go with it wholeheartedly.
A fact is that Sydney is an expensive place to live. If that is your major worry then look elsewhere. There are many cheaper places that can offer just as much.
.......
Now, if anyone can't find a shinier bucket it's because Badge & Hevs have mopped up the market.
May 12th 2005, 12:12 am
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mona Vale, Northern Beaches, Sydney
Posts: 1,076
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words!
Originally Posted by Parker
Thanks for all your replies. Will need to reflect on our decision to move and see if it really is the best thing to do.
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
Perhaps it would be wise to rent the house out rather than sell. Has anyone else done this - is it more trouble than its worth?
two points
firstly - if we had sold we would have had to downsize when we returned as the house went up by 60k (2001) in that year (but we were on a short term contract)
secondly - the market is different now and you may not return
personally I would sell, you can always buy another house if you come back but I have never been especially attached to the house in which I live
Tara
May 12th 2005, 12:19 am
#54
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mona Vale, Northern Beaches, Sydney
Posts: 1,076
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by Bix
Parker,
Please remember one thing.
The way you and your family live and react to the UK is distinct to you.
The way you and your family live and react to Aus will also be distinct to you.
There is no right or wrong here.......mainly opinion.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in the UK.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in Aus.
Between the two some is the same and some different.
It's what you do, what you make of it, that counts.
No-one on here can predict that and of course you cannot do that either.
You therefore have the very difficult task of deciding if you want to try it.
Whatever you do I think it is best to regret your dcisions, not the ones you didn't make. If you feel Aus is not right don't be afraid to admit it and don't regret making that decision.
We only succeed if we work hard at something so if you feel it is right then go with it wholeheartedly.
A fact is that Sydney is an expensive place to live. If that is your major worry then look elsewhere. There are many cheaper places that can offer just as much.
.......
Now, if anyone can't find a shinier bucket it's because Badge & Hevs have mopped up the market.
Please remember one thing.
The way you and your family live and react to the UK is distinct to you.
The way you and your family live and react to Aus will also be distinct to you.
There is no right or wrong here.......mainly opinion.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in the UK.
A fact is there are many ways to live, work and play in Aus.
Between the two some is the same and some different.
It's what you do, what you make of it, that counts.
No-one on here can predict that and of course you cannot do that either.
You therefore have the very difficult task of deciding if you want to try it.
Whatever you do I think it is best to regret your dcisions, not the ones you didn't make. If you feel Aus is not right don't be afraid to admit it and don't regret making that decision.
We only succeed if we work hard at something so if you feel it is right then go with it wholeheartedly.
A fact is that Sydney is an expensive place to live. If that is your major worry then look elsewhere. There are many cheaper places that can offer just as much.
.......
Now, if anyone can't find a shinier bucket it's because Badge & Hevs have mopped up the market.
Parker I know what you are going through, I am so scared about everything we are soon to give up, but I think my husband is even more scared. Look at our timeline, we have wanted this for so long but our situation is now different to when we applied. The kids are two years older for a start!
Wishing you all the best with your decision.
Tara
May 12th 2005, 12:22 am
#55
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 360
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by Geordie George
Our salaries are actually ever so slightly higher than we were earning in the UK. Having spent hours pouring through job adverts, I think that the sort of roles Mr GG and I were going for definitely paid comparable salaries to those we would have applied for if we'd stayed in the UK.
May 12th 2005, 12:24 am
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mona Vale, Northern Beaches, Sydney
Posts: 1,076
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by sackofspuds
This, IMHO, makes a huge difference.
May 12th 2005, 12:41 am
#57
da Bonehead
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Lion in da jungle
Posts: 22,767
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by ali south
what is IMHO?
Sometimes just IMO
May 12th 2005, 12:48 am
#58
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 360
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by Bix
IMHO = in my honest opinion
Sometimes just IMO
Sometimes just IMO
May 12th 2005, 12:49 am
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mona Vale, Northern Beaches, Sydney
Posts: 1,076
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by sackofspuds
er, humble rather than honest.
Last edited by ali south; May 12th 2005 at 1:10 am.
May 12th 2005, 1:06 am
#60
da Bonehead
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Lion in da jungle
Posts: 22,767
Re: Getting cold feet - need encouraging words from Sydney siders!
Originally Posted by sackofspuds
er, humble rather than honest.
I am now humbled
Here's a disctionary of all those nice things...... http://www.pconsulting.com.au/netspeak/
