Get a headstart on settling into Oz
Jun 3rd 2003, 5:56 am
#16
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 334
Sydney v Melbourne
Oops - forgot to mention that I'm new to the forum but have met some of you already last Sunday. Don't know everyone's nicknames but hi to marlo, suffolkdiva and stevebannister. footie chick - is it your husband who's not sure about the hot weather? Great get together - see you again soon we hope.
Poppy - you asked about Sydney v Melbourne. This is something we really agonized about too. Need to tread carefully here to not offend Sydneysiders (hey - I was born there too!) or Aussies from other states so it's hard to be brief. These are very much my opinions and many people will disagree but here goes:
Sydney is the most stunningly beautiful city in Australia - the harbour is fantastic and if we could we might buy a great house there by the beach. On New Years Eve with fireworks over the harbour you wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Unfortunately, everyone else thinks so too so it's also the most expensive city in Oz. You need a lot of money (even in pounds) to buy a house anywhere. Forget about near the water AND close to town. Better still forget about near the water at all unless you're rich.
Sydney property was getting pricey enough a few years back with all the foreign money flowing in from Hong Kong (before the hand back to China). The Olympics seem to have really sent it skyrocketing. I hear prices have stopped rising now (like London) but that doesn't mean they've got cheaper...
So you end up far out of town north or south. The harbour creates transport problems because of the way it winds around everywhere - few train lines and really meandering bus routes. The suburbs are pretty but it takes ages to get anywhere driving on main roads with traffic lights (like A roads inside London). There aren't many freeways. If you move out to the western suburbs you get freeways but you're many miles from the water - kind of missing the point of Sydney but still paying the prices.
Think something like LA where everyone drives and with massive urban sprawl - it's around 60 miles from northernmost Sydney suburb to the southernmost. Same distance as central London to Southampton!
Sydney's outer 'burbs can be like the outskirts of London - you live mainly in your suburb and have a job locally and a family you hardly ever go into the West End because the journey's too much hassle but you still pay London prices for a house. Bit of a con really.
There's also some talk in Oz lately about extra loadings on house insurance for bush fire risk areas. Sounds like it's going to happen and that's going to affect any of the outer suburbs of Sydney (and other cities too) - beautiful houses surrounded by trees are only great if the trees are not on fire...
There are other issues with Sydney too - more lifestyle ones. Because it's the commercial 'capital' of Oz, people tend a bit more to the 'work hard, play hard' thing. I guess maybe they have to with the size of their mortgages and interest rates being higher than here. We're not so much the work hard types so it doesn't suit us!
Melbourne is the most English of the Australian cities. The weather's a bit familiar too (sadly!) but it's warmer than here. Still plenty of urban sprawl but it has public transport and most office jobs are in the centre of the city. Lots of cafes and the best food in Oz too. It's the second most expensive city in Australia but house prices are around 30-40% cheaper than Sydney and other living costs are a bit lower. Salaries vary but might be about 10% less than Sydney so overall it's cheaper.
Many young Australian families are moving out of Sydney to other cities to afford a house. Some less well-off families are moving out of Melbourne too. Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide (in that order I think) are the popular destinations for them but you don't get quite the big city feel there. All great places for families though and cheap houses.
So for us it's Melbourne. Big city feel, can buy a house 10 miles from town not in the bush, public transport when needed, lots to do, less frenetic pace. Shame it doesn't have the harbour though. We loved our time living in Sydney on the harbour but it wore us out. The rent cost a mint, commute (ferry and two trains) looked great but felt like hell after the first few times and was unpredictable and the pace was too much go-go-go. Hey - London all over again...
Good luck with your decision Poppy - see you in Oz somewhere!
Poppy - you asked about Sydney v Melbourne. This is something we really agonized about too. Need to tread carefully here to not offend Sydneysiders (hey - I was born there too!) or Aussies from other states so it's hard to be brief. These are very much my opinions and many people will disagree but here goes:
Sydney is the most stunningly beautiful city in Australia - the harbour is fantastic and if we could we might buy a great house there by the beach. On New Years Eve with fireworks over the harbour you wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Unfortunately, everyone else thinks so too so it's also the most expensive city in Oz. You need a lot of money (even in pounds) to buy a house anywhere. Forget about near the water AND close to town. Better still forget about near the water at all unless you're rich.
Sydney property was getting pricey enough a few years back with all the foreign money flowing in from Hong Kong (before the hand back to China). The Olympics seem to have really sent it skyrocketing. I hear prices have stopped rising now (like London) but that doesn't mean they've got cheaper...
So you end up far out of town north or south. The harbour creates transport problems because of the way it winds around everywhere - few train lines and really meandering bus routes. The suburbs are pretty but it takes ages to get anywhere driving on main roads with traffic lights (like A roads inside London). There aren't many freeways. If you move out to the western suburbs you get freeways but you're many miles from the water - kind of missing the point of Sydney but still paying the prices.
Think something like LA where everyone drives and with massive urban sprawl - it's around 60 miles from northernmost Sydney suburb to the southernmost. Same distance as central London to Southampton!
Sydney's outer 'burbs can be like the outskirts of London - you live mainly in your suburb and have a job locally and a family you hardly ever go into the West End because the journey's too much hassle but you still pay London prices for a house. Bit of a con really.
There's also some talk in Oz lately about extra loadings on house insurance for bush fire risk areas. Sounds like it's going to happen and that's going to affect any of the outer suburbs of Sydney (and other cities too) - beautiful houses surrounded by trees are only great if the trees are not on fire...
There are other issues with Sydney too - more lifestyle ones. Because it's the commercial 'capital' of Oz, people tend a bit more to the 'work hard, play hard' thing. I guess maybe they have to with the size of their mortgages and interest rates being higher than here. We're not so much the work hard types so it doesn't suit us!
Melbourne is the most English of the Australian cities. The weather's a bit familiar too (sadly!) but it's warmer than here. Still plenty of urban sprawl but it has public transport and most office jobs are in the centre of the city. Lots of cafes and the best food in Oz too. It's the second most expensive city in Australia but house prices are around 30-40% cheaper than Sydney and other living costs are a bit lower. Salaries vary but might be about 10% less than Sydney so overall it's cheaper.
Many young Australian families are moving out of Sydney to other cities to afford a house. Some less well-off families are moving out of Melbourne too. Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide (in that order I think) are the popular destinations for them but you don't get quite the big city feel there. All great places for families though and cheap houses.
So for us it's Melbourne. Big city feel, can buy a house 10 miles from town not in the bush, public transport when needed, lots to do, less frenetic pace. Shame it doesn't have the harbour though. We loved our time living in Sydney on the harbour but it wore us out. The rent cost a mint, commute (ferry and two trains) looked great but felt like hell after the first few times and was unpredictable and the pace was too much go-go-go. Hey - London all over again...
Good luck with your decision Poppy - see you in Oz somewhere!
Jun 3rd 2003, 6:52 am
#17
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 198
Hi Jolyn!
Didn't realise who it was posting as this user name
Enjoyed meeting you last Sunday. It was a good get to together which I hope we will be able to do again, but hubby and me especially enjoyed your input, as someone who knows what they are talking about, is positive and realistic with it.
Keep posting....it's much appreciated!
See you at the picnic hey?
Didn't realise who it was posting as this user name
Enjoyed meeting you last Sunday. It was a good get to together which I hope we will be able to do again, but hubby and me especially enjoyed your input, as someone who knows what they are talking about, is positive and realistic with it.
Keep posting....it's much appreciated!
See you at the picnic hey?
Jun 3rd 2003, 7:02 am
#18
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Sussex
Posts: 1,927
Hi Jolyn
Sorry as Suffolk didn`t realise this was your posting name.
Yes it is my other half who is not keen on the heat.
Nice to meet you on Sunday.
footie chick
Sorry as Suffolk didn`t realise this was your posting name.
Yes it is my other half who is not keen on the heat.
Nice to meet you on Sunday.
footie chick
Jun 3rd 2003, 7:18 am
#19
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Hi Jolyn,
Its nice to read such a helpful post, we are heading to Melbourne later this year (hopefully) and won't miss our crappy local one bit!
Family however is a different thing................
Its nice to read such a helpful post, we are heading to Melbourne later this year (hopefully) and won't miss our crappy local one bit!
Family however is a different thing................
Jun 3rd 2003, 7:24 am
#20
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2003
Location: London
Posts: 202
Sydney Vs Melbourne
Wow Jolyn, thank you for your reply it must have taken a while - I really appreciate it.
Still in a quandry, but it looks like Sydney is out, sounds fantastic, but as you say with a family it's just too expensive (something we are keen to get away from - currently living in London!).
Melbourne sounds good - we'll just have to wait and see. Once the application comes through (there's optimism for you), then we'll be going on a 4 - 6 week holiday to validate the visas and we can do a reccy then! won't be easy with 3 boys tho', ages 7, 4 and 10 months - help!!
Thanks again for your help and good luck with everything.
Cheers
Poppy
Wow Jolyn, thank you for your reply it must have taken a while - I really appreciate it.
Still in a quandry, but it looks like Sydney is out, sounds fantastic, but as you say with a family it's just too expensive (something we are keen to get away from - currently living in London!).
Melbourne sounds good - we'll just have to wait and see. Once the application comes through (there's optimism for you), then we'll be going on a 4 - 6 week holiday to validate the visas and we can do a reccy then! won't be easy with 3 boys tho', ages 7, 4 and 10 months - help!!
Thanks again for your help and good luck with everything.
Cheers
Poppy
Jun 3rd 2003, 7:31 am
#21
?????????
Joined: May 2003
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1,974
Can you do Rolf Harris or Dame Edna?
Jun 3rd 2003, 8:09 am
#22
Living the dream downunde
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: MeadowBank, Sydney, Aussie Land of Sea,Sun and Seashells
Posts: 355
Some other points I have found
1. Aussie Tv..............
Well you get more adverts, eg. every 10 minutes, but adverts in Australia are pretty funny.
2. BBQ seem to be the highlight of every week, you can get gas BBQ by the beach !!!
3. Public transport is very very good in some big cities, e.g. most australians use it.
4. Try not to take bags into shops, supermarkets as it is the norm that they may ask to search your bag !!!! (happens in big cities like Sydney)
5. There is one bad side of Sunny weather in Australia, 1 in 4 ozzie will get some sort of skin cancer, so remember the Slip , Sloop, Slap rule.
6. Fast food meals are really cheap compared with U.K. prices
1. Aussie Tv..............
Well you get more adverts, eg. every 10 minutes, but adverts in Australia are pretty funny.
2. BBQ seem to be the highlight of every week, you can get gas BBQ by the beach !!!
3. Public transport is very very good in some big cities, e.g. most australians use it.
4. Try not to take bags into shops, supermarkets as it is the norm that they may ask to search your bag !!!! (happens in big cities like Sydney)
5. There is one bad side of Sunny weather in Australia, 1 in 4 ozzie will get some sort of skin cancer, so remember the Slip , Sloop, Slap rule.
6. Fast food meals are really cheap compared with U.K. prices
