Bix

My eldest son is just completing a BTEC diploma college course that is equivalent to 3 A-levels. He is now considering next stage of development which is University in OZ.

Not a lot of advice I can give him as it's outside of my field but I feel networking would be a good move. As I see it the future in business and home will be all about networking and I do not think this area is well covered in the market place.

What would our IT fraternity recommend ?

Badge / BP I know you two are in the industry so what do you think ?

Thanks.

rossifumi

Mate, I finished an HND IT (Networking) at Camborne College last year, is yer nipper thinking of doing this. I know that they ain't got their sh*t together yet as to sorting out the degree yet. Funny ol thing!
Looking at the job market and advice from many forums it does seem that the IT industry is saturated. MCSE seems to be the way ahead as the majority if not all firms use Microsoft gear. CISCO is another option as the world/web runs on Cisco equipment.
Both, if your son is keen can, be run alongside his next course.
If he decides to take a degree couse in IT/IT(Networking) it certainly does seem to come all together and they complement each other if you like. I did start a CISCO course whilst doing the HND but what with work etc... it did become too much for me.

PM me if you like mate.

Cheers

rossifumi

Badge

The impression I get is that everyman and his dog are in Networking or PC support. This is where everybody seems to try to get in to the industry now. Apart from the other biggie:development (software) (what I do).

If I go down to Bing Lee city every shop is doing one of two things: networks or pc support/fixing eg. Hardware.

So your young fella needs to be GOOD. GOOD probably means certification AND/OR RELEVANT experience. so MSCE yadda yadda is always a good thing.

Not sure if a degree will guarantee payback in the short to medium term. (I'm cynical here).

Either way your son needs to study; it all then depends on him, his marketibility and if he gets that initial break..but we all have to start everywhere.

BM

JaneandJim

When the IT industry in the UK had its crash after Y2K, it was the comms/networking side that was hit hardest. Worldcomm had built this huge office complex in Reading, but the company collapsed before ever moving into it.

Does your son want to be in IT? Its hard to predict how the industry will shape up in the next few years. A lot of the programming is being shipped to places like India, but its hard to tell if management will wake up to the fact the the code coming back is a load of crap or if they would still prefer paying peanuts for monkeys. (Just a saying, not a racial slur!)

What about tax/accounting consultancy? Everybody is supposed to pay tax/have accounts auditted. Has he considered that as a career instead?

Jane

Badge

IT - you have to keep on learning esp in development. Networking may be less extreme in this respect.

Some trades are always in demand, some get hit, ie sandal wearing web designers and pretty graphics people who were earning megabucks in the dot boom of 1998-2000 have suffered ever since 2000/1. Experienced hard core old fashioned developers and db people can get something somewhere now- althought there was a slump 2001-2003. Luckily I was in Straya retraining.

There is a case that all IT will bugger off to India et al, so I have tried to retrain these last few years on the side in other things that can feed the missus and me.

However all this outsourcing to Dehli et al may prove to be a mistake and the West may get it all back

BM

JaneandJim

I'm an experienced hard core old fashioned developer and theres not a cat in hells chance of me finding work in Australia. You're right about learning though. Jim always managed to improve his skills on every contract he took, so he has no problem finding work and I can be a lady of leisure!

Jane

Badge

eh? why's that then? Or are you alluding to being in some weird and wacky industry...

BM

JaneandJim

I was a pl1/DB2 programmer. Worked at British Airways for 5 years, then contracted for various others, including 3 years at 3M. Nobody uses Pl1 anymore and I never bothered updating my skills, so I'm no use in IT. My ex-colleagues in the UK are also struggling for work. All about keeping your skills current, as you said.

I am retraining in another area, though, so will start earning again eventually!

Jane

bondipom

IMO there is only so much work that can go to India. Enrollments for IT courses have crashed in Aus and I believe programmers salaries will stable out. I doubt the crazy times of the past will happen again because the Indian/Chinese programmers will take up the slack.

Too many monkeys are out there doing support however good people with experience of large installations will still do OK. There is a big difference between a 40 PC network and a company with 500 sites and 300 PCs spread all over Australia with backend systems and a manufacturing facility.

There are still a lot of networking engineers out of work from the telecoms crash.

The best people I know who are in IT came from non IT backgrounds and have skilled themselves. All the programmers here are also skilled in the mainstream business. An analogy would be that an accountant would be needed on a team programming an accounts system.

I would say the best move would be finding an area he enjoys so he can be the best in what he does. Pointless being an IT wage slave anymore. After the training is getting the experience. The initial experience will more than likely dictate the career path. Getting that break is the key.

Badge

agree with everything BP says - although there is an outside chance that IT will come back from Indian/China...who knows..

As he says, there are small fish and large fish jobs...

I am non IT background and it always helped me to get an interview as my CV was always sexy. Then I go and close...(!)

Wage slaves: If IT salaries in the West ever stabilise ALOT ie. I go from earning AUS60-80+ in Melbourne to say AUS30-40K in Melbourne I will get out. Might as well be a PA or something! Stabilise probably means the end of AUS100+ salaries or rates? Hopefully I will be mortgage free by then!!

Relatively high IT wages have always made all the hassle worthwhile..although there are thousands of underpaid IT people everywhere - I was one of them..still, enjoyed the crac in other ways...and made money in package if not base.

What do people think are realistic salary expectations going forward 5 yrs..

BM

gedge

For me it was the first break that formed where I headed in IT.
My Uni studies were 80% hardware/networking 20% software.

Whilst doing the trained monkey job of pc support + maint for peanuts I applied for every IT job going in town. Ended up being taken on as a programmer as I had the aptitude?!

9 years later I'm still cutting code.
I don't see all the programming jobs disappearing to Delhi. Same thing started happening around 96/97 in the UK, then it swung back to inhouse.

I reckon that nothing compares with experience, aptitude and enthusiasm.

Couldn't agree more.

MikeStanton

The key driver for offshoring work was saving money. However, given the overhead of running offshore projects the shine has gone. The biggest causes of poor quality work are the human communication/cultual issues.

Projects/work that are simpler (like network management for large companies?) will continue to be outsourced. More complex or riskier projects - including some areas of development - will stay in-house....for now.

The two safest strategies for now are: i) as always - specialise and keep very current. Eg post 9/11, IT security has been in demand - but for how long? or ii) move up the 'IT food chain' - become more business oriented. Increasingly you will see IT people gaining experience and qualifications in accountancy and business (eg MBA).

With Oz being a small economy, if the major employers (eg Telstra, NAB, BHP) continue to move work offshore, it could have a big impact on the local IT market. The relative glut of IT people will continue to drive salaries down in real terms.

Jemo

I think offshoring will be the future for software coding. Coding and testing tasks (and some detailed technical design tasks) will be offshored to India (and probably China in the next decade).

Architecture, functional analysis, high level technical designs, implementation and part of the testing will remain. Computer hardware have gone a similar route. IBM mainframes used to be built in Germany... Now everybody expects computer hardware to come from Korea, China of God knows where. The only thing that we do in western Europe is putting it in a box and add the power cord for the desitination country.

Your must evolve your IT skills the same way the software development market evolves. That means updating your skills, learn new development techniques and read a lot of books. If you don't like learning, stay away from software development. If you don't keep up, your job will be offshored whether you like it or not.

Nibbs

Hi ya Bix

As Mike says, security is a hot topic. And that's really how it goes, there's always a "hot" skill and IT changes frequently.

There's a fair bit of interest in Linux and, over West, GIS skills are in demand.

It is pretty difficult getting into the market though. Certification might get you an interview and it's certianly a good way to learn the basics but it ain't worth a lot without experience.

Personally I avoided Microsoft development as it tends to pay peanuts unless you are specialised.

EssexNobby

Small world Jane. I was also a PL/1, DB/2, Oracle programmer and did a 6 month contract at BA in 1995 on the CDMS project. Thankfully I've since been able to retrain into VB.NET, but I'd back up the comments made throghout thsi thread that being in IT, especially as a developer means not only having to continually retrain to keep your skills current (which can be expensive) but also having to compete against offshore development teams (e.g. India) who can present much better short-term financial justification to Project Managers. Of course long term financial outlook for offshore development in another matter entirely