comet555

Hi everyone. I've just spoken with someone who spent a couple of years working in Australia and I'd like to get your input on the truth to some of the comments. He is Canadian like me if that makes a difference. Any input on these statements would be much appreciated. Remember I did not say these things, just looking for info.

1. He found it very difficult to make friends there, he said the Auzzies pretty much kept to themselves.

2. He felt there was a lot of sexism towards women and that women usually made half of what men did for the same job.

3. He also said that there was a lot of racism, particularly towards the Aboriginal people.

4. He said clothing was very expensive there. For example a pair of jeans was about $250. Is this for real or does he just have expensive taste?

5. There are lots of flies, more so as you go inland. I have heard about this but truthfully how bad is it?

6. It is very difficult to get work there without Australian experience. My husband will be looking for work as a mining engineer and we assuming it would be very easy considering the shortage. But our friend (also an engineer) made it sound as though they wouldn't recognize any of his experience from Canada. He would need to start at a much lower position in order to get work.

That's about it. Remember these are not my comments, they are from a friend. I would really like some input. We are still planning on going as I know that some people love Australia and others hate it.

Thanks,

Haley

Wanderlust

Hiya,

Based on my own personal experience...

1 - I've found Aussies to be amazingly friendly people. I guess everyones experiences are different, based on who they get to meet.

2 - Don't know about sexism - I earned excellent money doing the same job as blokes (account manager) - but it seems to be frowned on when women consider doing jobs that are traditionally blokes jobs. (e.g. sparky, bricky, carpenter, etc.) I just think that there are so few women over here who do that sort of work its almost unheard of.

3 - Racism towards aboriginals - yes it does exist. I think that in general Australians have very little knowledge and understanding of their aboriginal neighbours.

4 - you can get clothes cheap or expensive over here. Depends on your tastes. I imagine some jeans are up to $250 in cost - if you HAVE to have that particular brand. Importing stuff to Aus can't be cheap.

5 - Flies - oh my god! Yes there are billions of them. Not so bad in towns, but we went camping in the bush on the way out to Lightning Ridge. Spent the night in a field in the middle of nowhere and they are awful! Mind you, it was strange, they don't buzz around your face so much as settle on your back and you dont even know they are there till someone tells you. Kinda gross.

6 - Don't know about the mining industry, but generally they like it if you have experience - regardless of where it comes from. Maybe there are certain Australian rules and regulations in the mining industry that need to be learned?

But as for me, flies warts and all - I love it here!

Good luck!

W.

Australia_bound?

1. Yes can happen
2. Yes particularly amongst the elder generation and the less well educated in Aussie society. Wages - Yes in some cases men earn more, but this happens just about everywhere!
3. Lot of bad feeling toward the indigenous population, lot caused by land right issues and how Aboriginal are portrayed.
4. Came back to UK with lots of Aussie clothes, prices were fine, quality not that hot in some cases!
5. Yes loads of flies as with any hot country.
6. Can be hard getting a job if you're not Aussie born never mind Aussie experienced. I've heard numerous people having to start way down the ladder, but if money is deciding factor in moving to Aus stay where you are!

Finally I'd say go have a holiday there form your own opinions, is very different to what I expected and I have a lot of family in Aus who gave me their opinions!

annqldau

1. He found it very difficult to make friends there, he said the Auzzies pretty much kept to themselves.

Most of the Aussies don't as much keep them selves to themselves as go to bed early and already have friends of their own so there is not the UK stay up late culture unless you are in a city centre area. Do have Aussie friends but more British just because they have similar wants.

2. He felt there was a lot of sexism towards women and that women usually made half of what men did for the same job.

Haven't encounted a lot of sexism yet but then in my profession wouldn't be such a big thing have noticed though that Aussie women are into shelling kids out by the dozen and seems to be more of a 70's/80's little women behind the sink impression once you get out of the city.

3. He also said that there was a lot of racism, particularly towards the Aboriginal people.

Think there is Aboriginal racism but a lot of that is because they live differently and tend to be on a lower social economic scale so similar to anti-chav feeling in UK.

4. He said clothing was very expensive there. For example a pair of jeans was about $250. Is this for real or does he just have expensive taste?

Clothes all prices like UK depends how much of a clothes snob you want to be.

5. There are lots of flies, more so as you go inland. I have heard about this but truthfully how bad is it?

Mozzies rather than flies where I am. Flies increase as you go inland.

6. It is very difficult to get work there without Australian experience. My husband will be looking for work as a mining engineer and we assuming it would be very easy considering the shortage. But our friend (also an engineer) made it sound as though they wouldn't recognize any of his experience from Canada. He would need to start at a much lower position in order to get work.

Think you have to get a first Aussie job even if at slightly lower level then once you are in seems easier. My husband did get pratted about at first by people who said you are just what we want then you heard nothing. Now OK and could change jobs relatively easy. Try a mining agencey to start with and get work through them and don't give in is the main thing jobs are there just have to push your way in.

cresta's conscience

I can't do the separate replies to each point thing der
I've found Aussies to be just as friendly as any other nationality of people it's like saying oh the germans keep themselves to themselves or the french are all stuck up. I think the majority of aussies are just as nice as the majority of pommies ,germans french or canucks.

I've not found any sexism I work with my hubby as a tiler all the blokes we work with are great blokes at first they used to apologise all the time if one of them swore now after hearing me when I break an intricate circle cut in an expensive floor tile they don't bother anymore, I think I've taught a few of them some new pommie swear words

Racism is very widespread not just in the blue collar workforce but right up to senior management nasty derogatory comments about the Aboriginals are commonplace. It's one of my pet hates here.

I suppose clothing is the same as everything you can pay as much as you want. I buy mine from Rivers, Target, K-Mart for everyday stuff Myers for a nice dress if we go anywhere that warrants a nice dress. I buy work clothes from Best and Less they last about a couple of months and I throw them away and buy more, they end up covered in glue grout and silicon very quickly.

Flies are everywhere, sand flies or noseeums abound in coastal areas they are the worst I react badly to them and only Bushmans keeps them away. Mossies make early evenings outside uncomfortable, I wear long pants or copious amounts of replant if i have to go outside at dusk. normal house flies are a problem only if don't have screens or if the kids leave them open. I don't notice them outside unless there's fresh roadkill roo close by.

Sean and I struggled to get work at first as Sean needed a trade licence, once that came we've been busy little bees ever since. Surely if your moving to a new country with no hands on experience there you expect to start a little lower down the pay ladder and build up your experience and renumeration accordingly? We were lucky in that we arrived at a time when housing was booming. Mining is still booming and there are plenty of jobs available, enough to tout yourself around a little for a good deal.

sour kraut

Interesting that it's mentioned a lot how early Aussies go to bed. So, if you'd like to make new friends, why not get up at 6 and follow them to the beach before work? It's a very outdoor culture and they do tend to live by the circle of the sun...
Don't know about sexism, the Aussie women I know wouldn't stand for it. But then, I do work in a female work environment.
I second what everybody's said about racism towards Aboriginals.
You can just as easily spend $40 on jeans than $250.
(You won't spend a lot on heating. But aircons might go hard on your electricity bill)
Inland, the flies are a shocker! Haven't noticed them in the city. I find them a lot harder to deal with than the mozzies, as mozzies are much easier to swat...
About the jobs - the only thing I know about mining is that everybody has to do this health&safety course which takes about a week, but that there's quite a few jobs advertised. Maybe check directly with the industry. There should be guidelines, which qualis are recognised, and which aren't.

Mctree

Well, in answer to question 4, it's true, but depends on the brand. In Toronto you can pick up a pair of Levis for around CAD 70 (or less), here they cost around AUD 220.

Other clothes prices are comparable to Canada, if not slightly cheaper.

jayr

Don't know where you are shopping for Levi's but they are typically $120 in Myer.

Amazulu

1. You have to make an effort to meet people & make friends. If you don't you will be lonely.

2. Maybe, but I recently left a large mining company in Perth & there were loads of female engineers there, doing the same as the guys. One of the most senior project managers was a woman. They all earned the same as the guys.

3. There is. Aboriginies are at the fringes of Australian society. There is a lot of history in this problem & the causes are many but there does not seem to be solutions. There is a growing animosity towards Muslims, just like there is all over the western world & I think it will get worse.

4. You can get good clothes & crap clothes. Good clothes tend to be expensive but $250 for a pair of jeans is ridiculous.

5. Flies are a problem for about 3 months between November & early February, then they disappear. You can get used to them but they are a pain. Some years are worse than others apparently.

6.That was then, this is now. It's a new world order in Perth. Mining engineers can write their own ticket here. If he can't get a highly paid job straight off the plane then there is something wrong with him.

Good luck.

NickyC

Can comment on this one. That's nonsense as far as I'm concerned. Australian women are mostly up-front and say what they want. Shy and retiring are not words you'd use to describe the average Australian woman.
I've no doubt that there'd be some sexism in outback mining towns and similar places but it's not the norm, at all.

There are laws to stop sexual inequality in the workplace which have been in place for years - the same as in all other civilised countries. No individual should earn any more or less than anyone else that does the same job. I've worked here for years and never encountered any pay inequality whatever.

Ransi

Your the first Haley I've ever met so to speak,no one I knows spells their name that way(exept me)

I reckon your mate has expensive taste's on the clothes front...dont even think I've seen jeans that expensive here!

mackinnon

Try sexism against MEN.

My wife is just finishing up on a telecoms project. She sits beside some of the recruiters, and overheard one of them tell an agency that the person they needed must be female.

Apparently males can't do project admin?

saoghalbeag

It sounds like your friend had a bad experience and wants to write off the whole country so that nobody thinks that maybe it was just him????

I agree with previous poster - if you haven't come out here already, do it, but bear in mind a holiday is not the same as relocating.

1. Friendly? Well, I don't know what to say here as I am Australian and having travelled would LOVE to meet more foreigners but live in the bush so don't get the chance. Also, every Canadian I have ever met has ended up hating me. I honestly do not know how I manage it but the only Canadian friend I have (after 3 years in Scotland so should have lots!) is actually German born...I would like to travel to Canada but to be honest, I'm a wee bit afraid...

2. Sexist? Living in Scotland I was shocked at how girls and women took a back seat...all the sports were for men and girls were ridiculed (cue lesbian jokes) if they tried to get involved. It seemed to be the culture that girls were okay as secretaries and child care assistants but nothing else...and single, career focussed girls were not on. There was also this seedy 1950s culture where the 'boys' went out every night to pick up backpackers whilst their wives/girlfriends/sisters etc were only allowed out on the odd occasion and ALWAYS ended up with local boys. Saying that, I was in a small town there, and have moved back to Oz (another small town) and see some similarities here.

3. Hmm...funny how much the Aboriginal thing has bugged me on this thread! I guess I haven't come across it as much in my circle of friends - and my family lived in Arnhem Land for a while so we've had some first hand experience of how the Indigenous ppl actually do get on. To be honest I believe I saw more instances of racism in Glasgow towards Pakistani ppl than I ever have here...but that's just my experience. And in the more rural areas of Scotland it sometimes looks like they don't LET anyone in who's not white... And all I remember from the (very biased towards England) news were stories of riots and gangs in the major cities - ALL the time! The events in Sydney last year were a huge shock to lots of Aussies and a lot of the comments around the time were ppl saying 'That happens o/seas,not here', so it's always interesting to me to hear ppl from the UK throwing the racist Australian card into the ring...

4. The clothing thing is crap. When I first got to the UK I had to wear every item of clothing I owned for the first winter because I was bloody freezing and couldn't afford a coat. At least Australia is so hot you don't need much clothing - no coats, boots and all that. Just a cossie and beach towel lol!

6. I'm in Education and my experience in the UK has been very much that o/seas qualifications are not up to the standard of UK ones. It has caused huge probs/delays in my career (and STILL does). Including being refused a job because there was one other candidate who had the same accent as the ppl employing me!

I guess as a citizen of the world you would have to be aware that there are elements of these negative things in every country - it just takes on different shapes and forms. And before all our expats try to lynch me for saying mean things about the UK - I love Britain (well, Scotland). I am in exile in Oz at the moment and hating every minute of it. I am borderline obsessive over Scotland and working tirelessly to get back there as we speak! All the egs above are just my bad experiences. I've had a million good ones and that's why I'm so keen to go back...permanently...they may be smelly and not wash, they may not have bulk size jars of vegemite and pick on me because of my accent but it doesn't matter because it's where i want to be.

So I guess that's the decision you need to make about Australia. Does the good outweigh the bad? Will you spend the rest of your life in Canada, regretting that you didn't live out your big adventure????

5. Flies? Wot flies??? :scared:

chels

1. He found it very difficult to make friends there, he said the Auzzies pretty much kept to themselves.

Luck of the draw really - you may end up working with a group of sociable people, you may end up with people who like to keep themselves to themselves. You may make friends from local community activities / school / sport, but again they may have their own social circles already and might not want new friends.

You may have to be very forward, issue invitations to people to go for coffee etc, and be far more extrovert and gregarious than you may be used to.

We have a few Australian friends, but our closest friends are British. I feel more comfortable with people with similar life experiences / cultural knowledge etc though this is getting less so the longer we are here.

2. He felt there was a lot of sexism towards women and that women usually made half of what men did for the same job.

Australia is just like many other countries, and women tend to be paid less. But that's because a lot of the work women do is part time, lower skilled work and employers seem to be able to get away with paying less for these types of roles. I wouldn't say they earnt half what men did, and if they are doing exactly the same job, under state award pay rates they should be paid the same. Not sure about the situation under workplace agreeements, as that's negotiated between the employer and employee.

Another point: about 1 in 33 CEOs are women. About 1 in 5 board members / senior executive are women (according to a mag I read the other day).

3. He also said that there was a lot of racism, particularly towards the Aboriginal people.

Yes, a lot of racism, ignorance, stupidity, unwarranted fear. But a lot of people aren't racist and embrace the opportunity of living in such a diverse, multicultural country.

4. He said clothing was very expensive there. For example a pair of jeans was about $250. Is this for real or does he just have expensive taste?

Buy clothes before you get here, if you can. It is hard to find good quality, low cost clothing. Better quality clothing is overpriced. Imported clothing can be expensive.

5. There are lots of flies, more so as you go inland. I have heard about this but truthfully how bad is it?

During summer, yes. However, insect repellent, fly screens and staying indoors helps.

6. It is very difficult to get work there without Australian experience. My husband will be looking for work as a mining engineer and we assuming it would be very easy considering the shortage. But our friend (also an engineer) made it sound as though they wouldn't recognize any of his experience from Canada. He would need to start at a much lower position in order to get work.

Yes. Employers prefer to choose someone with experience of working in Australia over someone who doesn't, and who can give Australian references. Often you do need to start on a lower position, and move your way up. But not everyone has to do this, and it won't necessarily take a long time if you do have to do this.

My first job was about $25,000 less than what I'm on now, but I only did it for 6 months. I am still on less than I would have been in the UK, but that's due to market economics - I've reached the top of the pay scale for my skills and experience.

Hayley, don't worry so much about what people tell you about Australia. Some people may not be keen on the idea of you leaving, so they won't tell you the most positive stuff!

Deer Hunter

I'm from Edmonton myself and having lived in Oz for 3 years I would say that it is very much like Canada in terms of culture and work. There is a large Canadian ex-pat community in Victoria which I'm sure there is in most other states so it should be fairly easy to find people in the same boat as you. Canadian Club of Victoria this site also has links to Canadian clubs in the other states.