Pollyana

Long discussion at work tonight with no decisive outcome as neither of us is Australian and just keep coming back to our "home" rules from our own two countries, which may themselves be out of date!

What's the Australian position if an untrained person gives well-meaning CPR to someone and causes them an injury or makes matters worse whilst doing so?
And having discovered that there is a defibrillator in the office but no-one has been taught how to use it, what happens if one of use with no training at all uses it in good faith?
Would we be covered by some kind of corporate insurance because we are n the workplace? Could we be charged with/convicted of causing injury (or worse) to the patient - who after all has no say in what is being done to them? Say the patient died because of something one of us did or didn't do - does anyone know the legal position?

All comments gratefully recieved!

mikelincs

I don't know about OZ, but when I did my first aid training I got a certificate that was good for two years, and would be proof so I couldn't be sued if I helped anyone, whether at work or outside.

Pollyana

At least you had training and a certificate - we have neither! Just a first aid box and a bag that apparently contains a defibrillator

scot47

Put pressure on employer to provide training !

mikelincs

When I was employed, at firsst there was a requirement that several people within the department were given first aid training, even though we were in a hospital, because we had patients visiting the area to have blood taken. I got three lots of training (each certificate lasting only two years). They then scrapped the requirement. Had to use the training just 5 times, three were to people who had fainted having their blood taken, once was to some idiot who had fallen two stories down a stair well (never found out how or why he had done that) and once was at a road accident where I could do nothing as the driver had such obvious severe skull damage that moving him at all would have probably been fatal, he was laid in an approximation of the recovery position with his head on his mother's lap. All I could do was to offer words of encouragement and stay with her till the ambulance arrived. He did, just, make it to hospital, but apparently they had to rescuscitate him 5 times on the jpurney, He died the same night; that was a traumatic event.
Driver had passed his test that day, and wasn't wearing his seat belt, his mother was distraught, she had told him to put it on, but he said he would be OK. The mother did come to see us about a year later and asked us to show her just where it had happened, and she then stayed a couple of hours talking about him.

verystormy

Defibs don't normally require training.

When they are opened they will talk to you about what to do and many even have a screen showing you what to do such as where to put the pads. Once the pads are on, there is little to do.

They will say things like. "Stop CPR as checking pulse". If it can't find a pulse, it will order you to stand clear of the patient while it shocks. Then will again try to find a pulse. They are very simple to use.

goldchoccycoin

There is a Good Samaritan law (learnt this at First Aid training) that protects people from prosecution/being sued providing their actions were 'reasonable'.

What that means I have no idea!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Qld Libs introduce 'good Samaritan' bill

DC10

CIVIL LIABILITY ACT 2003 - SECT 26 26 Protection of persons performing duties for entities to enhance public safety (1) Civil liability does not attach to a person in relation to an act done or omitted in the course of rendering first aid or other aid or assistance to a person in distress if—(2) Subsection (1) does not limit or affect the Law Reform Act 1995, part 5.

DC10

The 'good samaritan' protection in Qld for members of the public (as opposed to entities or medical professionals) does not seem to be as comprehensive as in some other states. It looks like there was a new section (27A) proposed for the Civil Liability Act to address this but it's unclear whether it passed into law.

Buzzy--Bee

I'm trained in first aid as part of my Volunteer Coastguard duties. We were taught -

- A member of the public (trained or not) has no requirement to give first aid to anyone else.
- The above does not apply if you are in a role and situation where you are expected to know first aid (eg cabin crew, surf lifesaver)
- If you start giving first aid, you must continue until relieved by someone equally or better qualified or until the patient recovers (or dies I suppose).
-No member of the general public can be held accountable for the death of someone they were giving first aid to (Good Samaritan law)

HTH

BB

Pollyana

Thanks guys, interesting reading - especially the fact that Qld,as ever, is different.....

DC10

Don't know why but this thread made me think of my first year law lecturer and the story he used to tell about it being perfectly legal in English (and Australian) law to stand beside someone and watch them slowly drown in a puddle (so long as it's not a child you're responsible for, or someone you caused to be in the puddle). But once you start offering assistance you assume responsibilities.

Apparently on the Continent the law is more likely to compel you to act.

Alfresco

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