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Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Old Oct 5th 2007, 10:05 am
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Default Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by longreach View Post
Unless the ATO have changed the rules recently, be aware that you will be creating a tax liability for yourself if you leave GBP in the UK and wait until the rate improves before transferring the remaining funds.

So for example, if you have £100,000 and the rate today is 2.3,

then that = $230,000 AUD.

If you wait for an rate iimprovementand it hits 2.50 in say 6 months and you choose to transfer then...

then that = $250,000...

A gain of $20,000 which may be subject to tax by the ATO.

I would suggest you seek clarification before you make a decision.

Can you get a higher rate of return here in Aus than in the UK that would offset any pperceivedloss in the exchange rate?

Cheers,
Mark.

Just want to clarify something here, I did not know and others might want to know?

Just for example below?

You have gained a PR visa.
You have to validate by 01/01/08 - 1 Year from Meds date
You have to enter no later than 01/10/12 - 5 Year period from grant

You have £100,000.00 in you building society account in the UK. (Lottery Win)

You validate and enter and stay for good, but do not move your £100,000.00 over to Australia for one year, waiting until the exchange rate improves.

The rate on initial entry is 2.3 to 1
The rate one year on is 2.6 to 1

You move your money now the rate is 0.3 higher.

You have waited, and gained $30,000.00 dollars, are you saying you must pay tax on this gain of $30,000.00? Even though it is still in the UK building society for that year?

BTW, you have received interest, and paid tax on the interest to the Australian tax man, as you receive your interest gross in the UK.

Second scenario.

The same above applies, but:

You leave the money in the UK, for x amount of time, say ten years, how do you know what the difference is between the rate at entry and the rate when you decide to change the money over to dollars?

Are you saying you must log the rate on entry, so as and when you move the money, you can calculate the differential?

If this is true then you are best to enter when the rate is at its peak, that way you cannot lose, as the only way the rate will go is down, so no tax to pay on the differential?

Third Scenario

I only ask, say you come over stay for two years on a PR, return to the UK for two years, then come back to Australia for good. But in this time, you leave your money in the UK.

It can get very complicated?

I would have thought, it’s your choice when you exchange, so long as you pay tax on the interest to the tax man of country of residence?


Otherwise only make permanent entry when the rate is at its peak, and log it?
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 6:06 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Bump, any takers, i know its a long'en, just wondered if anyone knew anything?
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 7:52 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=327

Some Examples
1. Consider Susan, who is planning to move to Australia from the UK and has a net £100,000 after the disposal of her former home. She believes that the UK£-A$ exchange rate will move in her favour over the next few months, and upon investigation into which bank account will pay the largest amount of interest on her capital Susan decides to open a new interest bearing bank account that is denominated in UK£’s. Susan then moves to Australia when the exchange rate is £1 = A$2.50 => the equivalent value of her UK£’s is A$250,000.

Three months later the exchange rate has moved to £1 = A$2.70. Susan decides that she wants to buy A$’s at this rate, so she instructs her currency broker to convert all of her UK£’s => she receives A$270,000.

Because the bank account in which the UK£’s were retained was opened after I July 2003 the gain of A$20,000 arising on the disposal of the UK’s and the purchase of the A$’s is assessable as income in Australia, and will be subject to tax in Australia in the income tax year in which the UK£’s are sold.

2. Compare this with the situation if Susan had decided to retain the £100,000 in a bank account which she had maintained for several years. In this scenario the gain arising would be outside the charge to income tax under the forex provisions as the account was opened before 1 July 2003.

However, it should be noted that this gain may be assessable under the capital gains tax provisions.

3. Mike also has £100,000 following the sale of his home in the UK. He also opens a new interest bearing bank account denominated in UK’s and deposits his funds in that bank account. He also moves to Australia when the exchange rate is £1 = A$2.50.

Like Susan he decides to hang onto his UK£’s because he thinks the UK£-A$ exchange rate will move in his favour over time. Mike sees the exchange rate at £1 = A$2.70 and decides to hang onto his UK£’s because he thinks the exchange rate will move towards A$2.90 to the £. Unfortunately for Mike the exchange rate suddenly moves against him and he eventually decides to buy A$’s when the exchange rate is £1 = A$2.38 => he receives A$238,000.

Mike has therefore realised a loss of A$12,000 on the disposal of his UK£’s, but is pleasantly surprised when he is advised that he can claim the A$12,000 “loss” (the difference between the value of his UK£’s when he arrived in Australia and the value when they are sold) as a deduction against his income for the year in which he sold the UK£’s. As he is paying income tax at 48.5% this means his tax bill has been reduced by over A$5,800.

Last edited by Sooty and Sweep; Oct 6th 2007 at 7:55 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 7:56 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

The way things are looking ......it'll be $2 to the pound.....

If anything the oz economy will keep growing and interest rates will rise.....making currency even stronger.....

and the uk economy will weaken.....over priced houses high debt levels etc...

all the best plumb....
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 7:57 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Shh! People have been banned in the past over questions like this.

Scenario 1. There is a $250k election you can make so that foreign accounts with less than this don't have to declare losses and gains as the exchange rate varies. An election is just a piece of paper that you put in your tax files. You don't have to send it to the ATO. You just need it there if the tax man comes knocking. I'm not sure if this election is per account or per person. There is a bit of slush in that you can go up to $500k for 15 days a year.

Scenario 2. The debate has been quite heated on this in the past (resulting in some bans). My current view is that transfers made from foreign accounts opened pre-CGT (in Aus) are not subject to any tax, accounts opened pre-July 2003 are subject to CGT rules and accounts opened post-July 2003 (inc) are subject to Foreign Exchange Gains Tax. You need to log the exchange rate on the day you arrive or look it up on the internet. There is still some debate as to whether transfers of these type are of a personal nature so it is best to get a personal ruling from the ATO. Do not assume that your definition of personal nature is the same as the ATO's.

Scenario 3. I reckon you use the rate on the day that you become tax resident for the second time (assuming you became non-resident when you went back to the UK).

I agree it would make life easier if you could come over when the rate is high. Good luck if you can coordinate this.



Last edited by MartinLuther; Oct 6th 2007 at 8:01 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 8:04 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

is'nt worth trying to play the markets......just lock in a realistic rate and take it as it comes......


your starting a new live..... don't want to look like a tax dodger from day one.....
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by MartinLuther View Post
Shh! People have been banned in the past over questions like this.

Scenario 1. There is a $250k election you can make so that foreign accounts with less than this don't have to declare losses and gains as the exchange rate varies. An election is just a piece of paper that you put in your tax files. You don't have to send it to the ATO. You just need it there if the tax man comes knocking. I'm not sure if this election is per account or per person. There is a bit of slush in that you can go up to $500k for 15 days a year.

Scenario 2. The debate has been quite heated on this in the past (resulting in some bans). My current view is that transfers made from foreign accounts opened pre-CGT (in Aus) are not subject to any tax, accounts opened pre-July 2003 are subject to CGT rules and accounts opened post-July 2003 (inc) are subject to Foreign Exchange Gains Tax. You need to log the exchange rate on the day you arrive or look it up on the internet. There is still some debate as to whether transfers of these type are of a personal nature so it is best to get a personal ruling from the ATO. Do not assume that your definition of personal nature is the same as the ATO's.

Scenario 3. I reckon you use the rate on the day that you become tax resident for the second time (assuming you became non-resident when you went back to the UK).

I agree it would make life easier if you could come over when the rate is high. Good luck if you can coordinate this.




Ummmmmmmm?


It does seem to me that if you have a large stash, upward of say £100,000.00 sterling in liquid assets, then planning your entry date is critical with regards to the exchange rate for two reasons?

If you are planning to exchange on entry, then easy peasy.

If you are planning to wait, a year, or five or ten years, then if you have entered at a rate which feels fairly high, say 2.7, then you can feel safe in the knowledge that you are happy with that rate, should it go higher, and you incur capital gains tax on any profit you make in the future, from making the exhange transaction?

I know, why wait at an exchange rate of say 2.7, but you may feel more comfortable with holding sterling, until you have been in Australia for say five years, and decide that you will never return to the UK.

Initial entry is critical, more critical than i realised with a regard to the exhange rate. Now is a terrible time to enter Australia, holding sterling, and either looking to exchange today, or holding and waiting say ten years, the rate goes up to 2.9 in Oct 2017, you exchange and must pay tax on your capital gain of 0.6 on the exchange rate increase?

I have understood this correctly? I think?

So if i enter today, exchange today i get say 2.25.

If i enter today, wait two years, decide thats it, i love it here, the rate is now 2.9, i am changing my sterling to Aus Dollars. The gain i make is 0.65, so on a £100,000.00 transfer, that is $65,000.00, then say tax is 40%, so tax payable would be $26,000.00?

Jeeeeez, best to plan entry military style if you plan on exchanging a large amount?

Last edited by Sooty and Sweep; Oct 6th 2007 at 8:33 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 8:42 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Sounds about right. Although entering at 2.25 everything will seem expensive, you'll get disillusioned and will probably head back quite quickly.

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Old Oct 6th 2007, 9:03 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by MartinLuther View Post
Sounds about right. Although entering at 2.25 everything will seem expensive, you'll get disillusioned and will probably head back quite quickly.

Just goes to show then that if you are planning to travel in the very near future, because you either have to validate, and do not want to do two trips, or you have to make your permanent move as your five years are up. Then the exchange rate currently could dictate your finacial position for many years to come?

Sure though, if this is the case, would it not be better to go now, clock up a couple of years maybe, come back to the UK, say in two years time, stay in the UK for a year say, until the rate goes up to say 2.6, then re-enter as a permanent resident, and exchange your sterling then.

This way you have been back to the UK, and become a non tax resident in Australia, then re-enter Australia for a second time, as you did become a non-resident as you have been back to the UK?

Could save you alot of money, and may suit many if you are planning to spend maybe two years in Australia, then two years in the UK. Then return to Australia for good?

I know it sounds too flexible, but not everyone has to settle down, buy a home, and state thats it, we are now here for good. The beauty of the five year window, does give this flexibilty and the oppurtunity to beat the exchange rate syndrome?

By the way MartinLuther THANKS for you input, a very valid debate, i have learnt something today which could dictate a few things, and make life a little easier for me, or many reading?

Last edited by Sooty and Sweep; Oct 6th 2007 at 9:06 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 9:21 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

You could get citizenship and then go and work in NZ for a couple of years. Might be a good way to spend the $26k dollars that you'd be giving the tax man.

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Old Oct 6th 2007, 3:08 pm
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Some links below, but its like trying to find a needle in a haystack, i am trying to locate the document which outlines the process and dictates what rules apply when making a loss or gain with regards to transferring a liquid asset such as sterling into Australian Dollars?

Any Tips?


http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessiona...tent/34749.htm

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/pathway..../009&mnu=24752

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/pathway..../009&mnu=24752

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/content....1/009&st=&cy=1

Foreign exchange (forex)
Foreign exchange (forex) measures bring to account foreign currency gains and losses as assessable income
or allowable deductions, on a realisation basis, to the extent such gains or losses are attributable to
a fluctuation in a currency exchange rate, or to an agreed exchange rate differing from an actual exchange
rate. The measures apply to all taxpayers, except for, broadly, banks and similar financial institutions.


http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessiona...tent/57624.htm

http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessiona...t/00104932.htm


Examples

Maria is an Australian resident who receives a foreign age pension from Italy. The pension is paid to her fortnightly in Euros. Maria may translate her total assessable Italian pension amounts for the income year by using an average annual exchange rate. She does not have to translate the pension into Australian dollars at the exchange rate prevailing at each time the pension payment is received.

Veronica receives a fortnightly British age pension. While the pension is paid in pounds sterling, the Australian bank into which her pension is paid converts her pension payments into Australian dollars at the time of each payment. Veronica chooses to translate her assessable British pension into Australian dollars using the rate applied by her Australian bank. That is, Veronica adds up the Australian dollar value of her pension as converted by her bank, rather than choosing to use an average annual exchange rate.

Oz Retail & Sales acquires goods regularly for its trading activities from various retailers in Germany. Goods are ordered in Euros from eight regular suppliers, and Oz Retail makes about six foreign currency payments each month when stock is ordered. Payment is due 30 days from the date of shipment. The goods are considered to be trading stock of Oz Retail.

In this case, Oz Retail could use an appropriate average rate of exchange when translating the cost of the acquisition of trading stock for income tax purposes.

Peter, an accruals–based taxpayer, is a consultant engineer. He provides professional services to clients in Australia as well as New York. In respect of the New York based clients, fees are written in US dollars at the end of each month, and payment is required within 30 days. The fees are around US$80,000 each month. It would be a reasonable approximation for Peter to translate the US dollar amounts into Australian dollars using an exchange rate based on a yearly average – or perhaps, a monthly average.

Peter (from example 4 above) had also bought an office building in New York for US$3 million during the income year. In this case, it would not be a reasonable approximation to translate the purchase price of the office building using an average yearly rate.

John has a rental property in the United Kingdom from which he receives fortnightly rent which is deposited into a bank account in the UK. Throughout the year, he pays miscellaneous expenses such as maintenance and minor repairs, and agent's fees, in respect of the property. It would be reasonable for John to choose to use an average rate of exchange in respect of the rental income and deductions when translating these amounts into Australian currency.

John (from example 6 above) sells the rental property in the following year, and receives a sum as consideration. As this is a one-off sale of a large capital asset, it would not be appropriate for John to use an average rate of exchange when translating this amount into Australian currency.

Last edited by Sooty and Sweep; Oct 6th 2007 at 3:20 pm.
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

hi there, still a bit confused,

Can any one tell me what would happen if like us you come with savings this nov approx £35000 leaving our daughter here to live in our house until she marries in 09 then sell and tranfer our money from our only residence.
surely we wont be taxed on this if the rate has went up from 07.

sharon
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Old Oct 6th 2007, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by sharon45 View Post
hi there, still a bit confused,

Can any one tell me what would happen if like us you come with savings this nov approx £35000 leaving our daughter here to live in our house until she marries in 09 then sell and tranfer our money from our only residence.
surely we wont be taxed on this if the rate has went up from 07.

sharon
Hi Sharon,

I would like to advise you, but i am still unsure myself?

I would like a definite answer regarding

+ Is there a six month window of opportunity where you can exchange your lump sum over, then thereafter, you are liable for taxation on any gain made by way of an increase in the exchange rate of pound sterling to Australian Dollar?

+ If you are liable to a capital gain taxation, then what is the percentage taxation rate of the gain or is it included in your end of tax year tax return limits; and is it to be filed within your end of year tax returns or payable in a one off payment?

+ If you travel to Australia, spend two years living in Australia, but leave your lump sum in the UK. You leave Australia, and spend one year in the UK. You then travel back to Australia, and spend ten years in Australia, during this ten years you exchange your lump sum over to Australian dollars. On your first entry the exchange rate was 1 to 2.2, but you never changed your money. On your second entry, the exchange rate was 1 to 2.6; you now change your money over within six months of your second entry. Is there any capital gain to be charged on this exchange with regards to the 1 to 2.2 TO the 1 to 2.6 differential between the two separate trips?

Last edited by Sooty and Sweep; Oct 6th 2007 at 6:12 pm.
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Old Oct 7th 2007, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by Sooty and Sweep View Post
Some links below, but its like trying to find a needle in a haystack, i am trying to locate the document which outlines the process and dictates what rules apply when making a loss or gain with regards to transferring a liquid asset such as sterling into Australian Dollars?

Any Tips?


http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessiona...tent/34749.htm

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/pathway..../009&mnu=24752

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/pathway..../009&mnu=24752

http://www.ato.gov.au/large/content....1/009&st=&cy=1

I will just make the observation here that this information is all in the section of the ATO website for Large Corporations & Multinationals.
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Old Oct 7th 2007, 3:23 am
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Default Re: Exchange Rate and Tax Implications

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
I will just make the observation here that this information is all in the section of the ATO website for Large Corporations & Multinationals.
... and yet there is no exemption from these provisions in the tax legislation for individual taxpayers ...

Best regards.
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