Phoenixuk2oz

[QUOTE=andrew63]
I pay significantly more than 80/week but <240/week into a trust fund for my UK child. That entire sum will be his when he is 18. So this way the child benefits greatly financially from this situation.
/QUOTE]

Andrew,
I can see you've planned ahead and are supporting your son by saving the equivelent of $600.00 per week as a result of not paying child maintnence in the UK. However, as you have stated, this then leaves the UK system to pay at least eighty pounds per week to your ex wife / partner for your sons upkeep. Where do you think this comes from? Tax?

I'm trying not to be moralistic here, as you say I'm not in your shoes but do you think it is right that you manage to save this large amount and the UK Tax payer has to pay for your son? I would imagine there are a lot of parents who would like to be able to afford to save this amount per week whilst the state pays for their childs upkeep. You sound a decent chap, I can't believe you'd think this was right

andrew63

[QUOTE=Phoenixuk2oz] Perhaps you can tell me why I should pay AUS$600/week when the child does not see a penny of it?
Perhaps you can tell me why $400 of it is used for children that are not mine?
Perhaps you can tell me why my (now) wife and three children should lose financially while my ex enjoys her luxury life at the UK tax payers expense.
When the CSA remove all your disposable income and you have a wife and children to support, what would you do? It creates a depression.
My ex has a partner, she also works "off the books" and still claims unemployment under married name and sickness benefit under her maiden name at another address.
Who is the bad guy?
I "hope" the money she is raking in is being used for the benefit of the child so I don't want to report her.

The system stinks and is very unfair. You can't beat it! Just avoid it.

Or should I just roll over and allow myself and my family to be sucked into a life of poverty? Not my style. Would it be yours?

Andrew

jad n rich

[QUOTE=Phoenixuk2oz] Was wondering similar myslef, does the Uk also have to pay unemployment/housing which must be significantly more than 80 GBP a week, if so does that come from the coffers?

Someone has to cough up

The Vimto Kid

Thanks for all the information, odaat.

Before selecting the country to which I will emigrate, I will also assess (as you're rightly pointed out) the other factors that may influnce my ability to purchase a house in the destination country.

However, the first thing (and the purpose of starting this thread) is to establish whether an individual still falls under the influence, either directly or by proxy, of the UK CSA, should they emigrate from the UK to AUS.

The Vimto Kid

Is that the letter in which I confirm that I'm about to emigrate, submitting a copy of the letter-of-acceptance from a destination country? If so, presumably that's something you can do within a month or so prior to leaving.. ?


Very wise. And I may well take you up on that, if that's OK -- thanks again.

andrew63

No problem. Already getting some grief from people with clearly no idea of the problems. To clarify one point, whilst the CSA has no jurisdiction, the Courts do. The CSA will not chase you at all, through the courts or otherwise.
Your ex does have the legal right to seek maintenance from you and that can be enforced but the chances are you have already handled that problem at divorce stage? Maybe that is where some confusion lies.

Andrew

The Vimto Kid

Thanks for following this up, Shell.

I'm starting to get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the PWC in the UK will have to do a non-trivial amount of work in order to cause the NRP in AUS to suffer financial loss. Knowing my ex-gf, that may well in itself be enough of a hurdle to ensure she doesn't go down that path.

However, I'll take your (good) advice and read the UK and AUS's CSA web sites to see if the situation becomes any clearer.

Looking on the bleak side, tomorrow's law is still unknown.

Anyway, thanks again.

shecha

No problem mate.
Just to clarify as well, I have never stated previously that the UK CSA have any jurisdiction outside of the Uk - coz I know they don't.
My confusion is whether the mother can apply herself directly to the Oz CSA for an assessment etc or whether she would have to go via the courts.
I e-mailed the Oz CSA yesterday for clarification on all this - so as soon as I receive a reply I will post it on here.
Good luck anyway with whatever you decide.
Shell

The Vimto Kid

My son is from a relationship with an ex-girlfriend; we were never married and, as no divorce took place, I have no experience of the Courts. When we separated and she signed on, the Benefits Agency opened a case against me at the CSA. Forms arrived by post asking if I was the father; I confirmed I was, supplied details of previous 3 months income, etc etc. And since the DEO was set up (I missed a payment to the CSA on 2 occassions), nothing's changed.

AFAIK, as long as she doesn't work (or, more accurately, "doesn't declare an income", wink-wink), they open it in her name, and that she only has the power to close it and come to a private agreement with me when she stops signing on.

Attempts to negotiate a financial and level-of-shared-care arrangement have proved fruitless. For her, the balance of work-expended-and-income-obtained by signing on and working cash-in-hand versus working full-time unfortunately favours the status quo (the moreso because the father of her 2nd child is, like her, fiddling the dole and therefore not assessable).


So (having established the circumstances but also waffled a bit), if I were to emigrate from the UK to AUS and the UK CSA, being satisfied I'd gone and having closed the case against me, would she have to apply to the UK Courts to establish a maintenance settlement? And if so, would she then have to apply to the AUS CSA to enforce that settlement?

Thanks for your continued help.


ASIDE: I know how irritating (and I use that word deliberately) it can be when people form an opinion based on precious few facts; you have my sympathy for the fire you have already, and may yet still, draw. Children and money are very emotive topics, but I implore everyone to keep this thread fact- and not judgement-based.


The Vimto Kid

The Vimto Kid

Brilliant -- thanks.

Further to that, I'm still unsure what the case is if there is no Court-based decision against the father (please see my recent response to andrew63 re: the background). Hopefully, between everyone's contributions, a better understanding will emerge.

The Vimto Kid

It's still appreciated, ABC. A thorough comparison of income-vs-expenditure is going to have to be done for each destination country sometime soon, so thanks for your pointers.

brisnick

i sympathise with you here. i don't have kids but an ex-girlfriend worked for the benefits agency for a short time and i was amazed with what she used to tell me about the system (it sucks really).

anyway, dob your ex-girlfriend and her new fella in. don't give up and insist the benefits agency chase them up. people who cheat the system are scum and should be treated accordingly.

The Vimto Kid

I've looked at every way in which I could encourage her to come to an arrangement, and notifying the Benefits Agency that she's supplementing her income with undeclared work would like have little impact on her and a detrimental effect upon our son.

The reasoning goes; the Agency take the view that if she were fined, she has no income to speak of with which to pay. If she had a brief spell in jail, the State would be obliged to pay for the care of the possibly tramatised children. Therefore, they turn a blind eye to single mothers who work (this is the advice given by people on the UK CSA newsgroup).

In addition, any money that she earns goes into the family-unit purse (I beleive she's currently single), and reducing the money in that purse obviously means there is less available to be spent on our son.

With regards her other relationships and children, she has three children by three different fathers, me being #3, last in line. Theoretically, this is the most financially lucrative way of a women obtaining income via maintenance, as she has three separate income streams, all at 15% of each father's assessable income.

However, child #1 (16) may have just left home, and therefore her father is no longer liable. Father of child #2 is the one who claims he isn't working; therefore, he ostensibly has zero-assessable income. Muggins here is the one with both a legit job and a resonable salary.

As it stands, should she start work and then receive my contribution directly (albeit via the CSA as a collection agency), given her low earnings, any additional financial support to which she may be entitled would be reduced by an amount equal to my contribution (i.e. no net gain, which is a disincentive for her to work legit). Father #2 is charged £0, and I have no right to insist that my contribution is spent solely on my son.

Anyway, that is just a bit of the whole sorry saga and part my rationale for leaving. If I drop of my perch without a house, I'll have nothing to leave the little man. And I'm sure as hell never going to have another relationship again, so at least any inheritance won't be carved up.

Sorry... this is all a bit beside the point. No doubt, right-minded citizens will form the opinion that I am of low character, and you're completely entitled to your opinion. As am I to emigrate.

The Vimto Kid

As much as I hate to say it, Andrew, the text below (from the link you supplied) would appear to confirm Shell's assertion:

So, even though the UK CSA might not instruct the AUS CSA to carry out a reassessment, she just needs to toddle down to the local magistrate's court, submit an application for maintenance and let them do the rest.

If she remains on benefits, perhaps the money deducted goes to UK Inc. But if she works again within the next 15 years (not entirely beyond the realms of all possibility), she would then have access to that as a additional source of income, presumably paid directly to her.

andrew63

Yes, sort of.
I have been talking to Shell on PM.
The UK CSA has no jurisdiction outside of UK.
Your ex CAN claim maintenance through the UK Courts and this CAN be enforced in Australia.
However, this has nothing to do with the AUS CSA at all.

Your ex claiming maintenance is probably an issue that should have been formed as part of your divorce settlement (if applicable) which is also nothing to do with the CSA as it for "her" and not the children.
If you were fortunate enough to get a clean break at that time, she cannot go to the Courts now and claim maintenance simply because you are leaving the country.
The thing you need to clarify is that CSA is for children, maintenance is for the ex. I am sure the CSA web sites all state that they do not take into account maintenance payments.
We can discuss more by PM if you wish. I have had enough of this thread

Andrew