piers_morgan

Background:

We emigrated to Australia a few years back and have now applied for Oz Citizenship. I have since discovered that as a Dutch national I cannot hold dual nationality. Obviously I don't want to give up my route back to the EU but also don't wish to lose my right to live in Oz should we move back to Europe. Ideally we want to obtain our Citizenship in order to move back to UK/Europe at the end of the year having given it a decent shot of living here. We currently feel that due to job prospects, family ties and a general pull back to Europe that we want to leave Australia but have the option of moving back to Oz in maybe 10-15yrs time. This is especially true with an oz-born baby who may well want to move here in 17yrs time only for us having problems getting back into the country should we want to move then as well!

Having done some research (e.g. http://www.netherlands.org.au/assets...N%20Engels.doc )there may be a couple of loopholes I can try:
1) Hold off on my citizenship until my wife gets it ("if you are married to a person who possesses the nationality you wish to acquire" you can have dual nationality)
2) Get my Oz citizenship and just keep on renewing my Dutch Passport with a pinch of ignorance. Not sure whether Oz Immigration Dept would contact Dutch authorities? Are there any fellow Dutchmen (women too!) who have managed to get around this problem?

With a Resident Return Visa, I see that they are only valid for either 3 months or 5 years and we therefore don't want to go down this route and to be back in Europe thinking all the time that we've only got x years before we have to move back to Oz or else we lose our route of moving back should we want to one day.

If after getting our Oz Citizenship, we may well move back to UK/Europe permanently ~ does this affect our Citizenship at all? Will Australia question us in years to come why we have Citizenship but do not live in Australia anymore? Is there a certain time period after you've become an Oz citizen that you can leave the country to live abroad without all the intricacies of Immigration laws?

It seems that after all these years of beuracrracy, filling in forms, jumping through loopholes, we end up going back to Europe with no right to return to live here.

Any hints/tips/advice appreciated.

Piers

Pomster

I'm sure the law changed 2-3 years ago. My former boss's wife of 13 years was Dutch national and would not take out Aussie citizenship as she would lose her Dutch passport. Apparently she only became a citizen because NL changed the rules and allowed dual nationality.

(My Aussie boss in now in UK, so I can't ask him for finer details)

furkew

Hi Piers,

I think Pomster could be right on this one. I have lived in Holland for 19 years on my UK passport, and I can apply for Dutch nationality and I would then have dual nationality. Don't hold me to this 100%, but this is what I have always been led to beleive.

Even if not the case, as an immigrant returning to europe, with an Australian passport, I don't think you would face any major problems. As you well know, getting into Holland is no problem for anybody nowadays. Even illegals don't get shipped out in most cases !!!!

adriang

I've been in NL for 10 years, soon to be leaving for Australia. I've got a British passport so not entirely of any NL specific's but as far as I know, there are some choices.

You take dual nationality, providing that both countries recognise this. I believe that the Netherlands now do.

If this is not the case, you can reapply for an NL passport, although this might risk your Australian one, but if your wife has dual citizenship, you can always use her to reapply.

You can come back to the EU as a dependant on your wifes passport, keeping your Australian one (this is what I'd do).

One important thing to remember is that with with EU, don't think UK or NL passport, think EU passports and therefore EU wide citizenship.

tum

Hi Piers,

If you want to you can check out the website www.xpdite.net, this is a forum for Dutch people who are planning to go to Australia. A lot has been said there about this topic.

If you move to Australia - being Dutch - under the age of 18, you can have a dual nationality. Also in the case of getting married to an Australian will allow you to keep your Dutch nationality.

Some people have contacted the embassy and asked if it is possible to let f.e. your wife become an Australian first and then - because you are married with an Australian - you could keep your Dutch nationality. But they weren't really specific in their answer. Guess it is - in this case - seen as a sort of loophole in the rules.

Good luck

Miranda (still living in the Netherlands)

piers_morgan

Thanks for all the replies so far. Yes, the only route out of this one seems to divorce my current British wife, marry an Aussie, get my citizenship, divorce Aussie wife ("we weren't meant to be..") re-marry my former British wife who has since managed to get her Citizenship, and hey presto! Ok, I have had a few to drown my scheming thoughts...

But being serious, it seems as though the best route would be to delay my citizenship approval until my wife has her citizenship and then proceed on the grounds that my wife is now a true-blue Aussie.

A couple of questions for Furkew - your wife is Dutch? And Pomster, your former boss was an Aussie?

Miranda - thanks for that website. Reading it all now...

Piers

furkew

Hi Piers.

First of all good luck with the divorce, and congatualtions are in order for your up and coming wedding

Yes my wife is Dutch. I met her while out here, been married 13 years (I think)

JAJ

Only in limited cases. The original poster has supplied a link to official policy.




Are you sure about that? Not all countries allow former citizens to get their citizenship back, or even immigrate back.



Why should it? Australia does allow dual citizenship. It would only be a problem if the Netherlands demanded he renounced his Australian citizenship.


There is no such thing as "EU wide citizenship". The EU is not a country.

A person is a citizen of one or more EU member states and as a result has certain rights in another member state. However, although it's unlikely in the short term, there would be nothing stopping any member state reimposing immigration control should it really wish to.

There is a significant difference between UK and Dutch passports - British citizens don't have full citizenship rights in the Netherlands, and vice versa. And British citizens can have dual citizenship with no problems from the UK side, Dutch citizens cannot unless exempted from the restrictions.



Jeremy

piers_morgan

bedankt furkew, thanks Jeremy.

Anyone know an understanding Aussie I can marry, then divorce?

JAJ

Didn't you say your wife was going to be Australian soon? Although it appears to be a loophole in the Dutch law and who knows how they will react.

Maybe write to the Dutch embassy and ask for confirmation that as long as your wife is an Australian citizen on the day you become Australian yourself, you retain your citizenship. (no matter how she became Australian). Ultimately, Dutch citizenship is a matter of Dutch law, not the personal opinions of consular officials.

One option to bear in mind - if you do lose Dutch citizenship - is that your wife could sponsor you to the UK on a spouse visa, and after 3 years you could become a naturalised British citizen. You could then live in Holland - at least under current laws - using your British passport.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk has the information on spouse visas.

Even if you keep Dutch citizenship, should you move to the UK it may be better to make sure you get Indefinite Leave to Remain and become a British citizen anyway. You can't go straight to citizenship in the UK if you are just a Dutch citizen using EEA rules, you need ILR first.

And a final thought. If you do lose Dutch citizenship, your child may also lose Dutch citizenship (check this point out) - however he or she would still have British citizenship.

The Dutch have strange rules. One would think they would either allow dual citizenship or prohibit it, rather than making a series of exemptions that divide Dutch citizens into those who can and cannot have dual citizenship.


Jeremy

JAJ

Once you have Australian citizenship, its yours for life. You can spend as long as you like overseas and always have the right to return.

There used to be laws that affected naturalised Australians who lived overseas for 7+ years, these were repealed in 1958.


Jeremy

tum

Hi Jeremy,

Exemptions, exemptions, ..........Dutch are great in doing this, if it is tax law, building rules, or in this case nationality issues, .........but if you have lived it, you are used to it (not by definition meaning agreeing to or liking it)

Bye

Miranda

furkew

Hi Miranda, I couldn't agree more.

If it doesn't make sense, it probably means its law.

piers_morgan

Thanks for the replies. will contact the Dutch authorities on Monday to see how they view things.

chocaholic

Hi Piers,

I'm curious to hear what the Consulate has to say about your nationality question. We are in the same situation in that I have Dutch/UK nationalities and husband is Dutch. We were thinking of me taking Aus nationality and losing the Dutch and he becoming Aus later on to be able to keep Dutch nationality (as you suggested as a possibility for yourself) - friends of ours have already done this - I'm not sure that they called the consulate to see if it was ok though!

groeten
Chocaholic