Originally Posted by MartinLuther (Post 7292744)

The main reasons for Australia's higher death tolls are the higher urban speed limits (it's not just the freeway one that counts) and the inherently unsafe roads (cf UK roads). Soft verges are a big killer when hit too fast. Junctions through dual carriageways uncontrolled by lights or roundabouts are more dangerous and they are much more common here. The road system in the UK is structurally safer than the one here.

I'm not brainwashed (that's just a childish taunt). I just clean up the mess. I've seen what happens when people drive too fast for their or the road's capabilities.

I don't know much about the German road toll so can't comment but if you're suggesting that higher (or uncontrolled) speed limits leads to a lower road toll then the NT bucks the trend (if such a trend actually exists). Also Victoria's strict enforcement of limits dramatically reduced the road toll when it was introduced.


I would agree that the British drivers are better (although they could do with a refresher course on indication and roundabouts). The Brits and the Swedes consistently come out as the world's best drivers.

So there's another reason why the road toll is higher here.



I think you're making and enormously dodgy assumption. I never suggested that everyone is responsible. In fact it should have been clear from my assertion that some people find a way around the MOT that there are people who are completely irresponsible. I suspect you missed my point. The roadworthy/MOT is intended to keep dodgy cars off the road. However irresponsible people can get dodgy MOTs. So those people who look after and maintain their cars are hit with an unnecessary test and tax.


You've made an assumption that I think speed kills. I think that inappropriate use of speed (i.e. speeding) kills. You seem to agree with this yet say my argument is flawed. My opinion is based on my experience of attending car accidents.

Personally I think the speed limits are too strictly enforced in Vic causing systematic tailgating. Now if you had said that tailgating (rather than the lack of annual roadworthy) was more dangerous than speeding then I would agree with you. I also think that some of the freeway speeds could be increased (although only on sections that don't allow people to cross the median strip).



That is my point. The annual test only catches a small minority (and even then misses a chunk of that minority) yet it penalises the majority.

Originally Posted by slipshot (Post 7292942)

ML - thanks for a well scripted and fair response. We obviously disagree on some points and agree on others. Fair enough - such is the nature of life. I'm sure your opinion given your job/role means you see things differently and that I understand.

Tailgating is a very fair comment, but I think overall it comes down to driver education (which is poor in both the UK and Oz) and over enforcement of speed limits. Likewise, I think 100kph is an extremely boring speeds on long roads. Studies have shown that if people are allowed to drive at higher speeds their concentration tends to remain higher as they are 'pushing' themselves a bit more. To the same extent, the speed limit on UK motorways is 70mph, most Brits tend to drive around 80mph and many at 90mph. Not many drive more than that is it seems 90 is a speed where people feel comfortable without being reckless.

Germany is different in that the unrestricted autobahns (of which there are only a few left) so not see higher rates of accidents than other German roads. However, when they happen they tend to be bigger, because of the speeds involved.


But I stick with the necessity to introduce an annual roadworthy but do agree that it is but one point of a system that is flawed in penalising very minor indiscretions when others have potentially far greater effects.

That said, you are entitled to your opinion and it was appreciated. Let's both stay safe eh!

Cheers

Slip

Originally Posted by BATS666 (Post 7293007)

Personally, I find the lack of an annual MOT type test laughable in a so called civilised society. More like the wild west!!
Add to that scarily close tailgating coz there are too many cars on poxy little dual carriageways all going way too slowly, often due to some twit driving well under the speed limit in the outside lane making people overtake on the inside. It's THAT that causes accidents, not driving at 90 in a 80 limit on an empty road on a dry sunny day.........oh, don't get me started...... :curse: :curse: :curse:

Originally Posted by slipshot (Post 7292474)

You may ask away...

My reference was to the 'not carrying a license' comment although I have been stopped at a number of speeds. Some were on the Hume where they must have done thousands of people driving at about 115 km in a 110 zone, since everyone was doing it and we thus all got tagged and receive the notice in the mail.

As for bombing down the freeway, that all depends on what you call bombing. I've of the mind that while speed limits are required, Australia has this ridiculous approach, preaching the speed kills nonsense etc, that means 100kph is safe but 103kph is not. Ridiculous.

I was stopped at one time doing a recorded 180kph. Too fast? It was a clear sunny road, deserted road in the middle of nowhere and in my opinion perfectly safe. And it was - I was fully in control of the vehicle, knew mine and the cars limits and had no issue. The copper was hidden in the bushes and I flew past. By the time he pulled out and I saw him I was a fair way down the road, but I immediately indicated and pull over and waited for him.

We ended up having a chat about the car, speed limits etc and he basically said he would have to do me. Fair enough, I know what the speed limits are and I chose to go faster, but put my speed down as 'over 100kph' rather than my clocked speed. Decent copper.

Was I safe - perfectly. You may disagree, but to be honest, what is safer - someone doing in excess of the speed limit on a dry, open and empty road, or not having an annual MOT test (in Vic) that means a car can be a death trap, not been checked for anything in years and no-one cares. Easy answer in my book.

I drive appropriate speed at the right times (such as 40 or less around schools), regardless of the time of the day, and there are countless times when speeds in excess of 100, 120 and more are perfectly safe.

It's my choice and I fully understand the consequences of being tabbed by the cops.

Originally Posted by jond (Post 7292785)

I would agree that the British drivers are better (although they could do with a refresher course on indication and roundabouts).




It's strange that you mention that, I was driving up to Whittlesea on Sunday and the 2 lads in the ute with me commented on my indicating on entering and leaving a roundabout. One of them said it must be a pommie thing as they had never seen anyone do it before:confused: