Difficult situation - child custody
 

Hi everyone :)

Bit of a difficult situation.... I have permanent residency, which I received as a dependent in 2003 as my parents applied. We lived in Australia for one year before my parents got homesick and we came back to the UK. I have missed it ever since and have always planned to go back when I was a bit older, more financially secure, not dependent etc. So I got a resident return visa, which will expire again April next year (2013).

I now have a long term partner who also has always wanted to move to Australia, he is in the Royal Air Force and plans to transfer to the Royal Australian Air Force. The problem is, he has a son from a previous partner. They have never been through the courts and have always agreed on joint custody, but he wants to take his son with him to Australia. He thinks he can provide him with a much better, more secure life over there as the mother does not work, lives in council housing etc.

I am unsure how I feel about the whole thing. I want my partner to be happy and of course his son but I dont know if it is the right thing to do. Has anybody had any experience in this sort of thing? How important do you think the childs views are i.e. would it be right if they child said he wanted to go? Does anyone know anything about the legalities? :unsure::(:confused:

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I'm no expert in this area but I think the mother would have to give approval for the son to move. I know if my ex tried to take my son out the country he'd have a bloody big fight on his hands.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I think you are right, based on the research I have done, I think if there is a disagreement then it goes to the courts to decide and that is where they take into account the childs views etc... But I absolutey agree with you, I do not have any children myself but I cant imagine if I did that I would just allow them to be taken away from me without a bloody big fight! This is where I am struggling with the situation because my morals are telling me it is wrong. My partner doesn't think she looks after him as she should and I know of one occassion where there have been dealings with social services. But as far as I can tell, she is not violent, she doesnt starve him etc, he is a happy little boy.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Who does the child live with mainly? Very very difficult situation if she doesn't agree.. Virtually impossible without permission.

If he's airforce does that mean you will be looking after the child at home?

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

At the moment he lives mainly with the mother because my partners shift pattern recently changed. He used to work 4 days on 4 days off so they had him equal amounts of time. However, he has looked into getting full custody before and the RAF are very supportive, he was even offered some sort of case worker to help him with the procedure.

I guess it depends on his working hours, I dont know what the hours or shift patterns are like in the Australian air force compared to the UK, but the child would generally be at school in the day.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Read:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Child_...an_Immigration

How old is the child? That's a key variable you've not told us.
Also, was he married to the mother? If not, he may not even have parental responsibility unless he applies for it.

If he decides to emigrate without the child, then also read:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Medica...ating_Children

If you need professional assistance then Ian Harrop is a good option in the UK: http://www.ianharrop.co.uk

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Unless the law has changed in the last two years, this is not the case if you mean legal approval. Up until two years ago, the stats on people gaining Removal From Jurisdiction (RFJ) were very favourable - for well planned applicants.

Court can run to approx £10,000 and then the judge can declare monies to be given to the remaining parent. There can be a lot of stress involved as well.

I would advise thinking it through and seeking experienced legal advice - not all advocates have much experience in this area.

Cooler

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I would also recommend Ian Harrop.

Cooler

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Thanks for the links, very helpful.

He is only 5 at the moment but we wouldn't be looking at going for a little while yet because I am in the middle of a university degree and my partner is coming up to a possible promotion so he would be a bit older at the time of applying.

He was not married to the mother although I did read something that said if the child is born after 2003 (which he was) then the father does have parental responsibility due to a change in the law around that time?! I dont know much about this, it is just something I have read.

Thanks again for the advice.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Thanks for the advice, will definitely look into Ian Harrop as well.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Year before last my husband applied to adopt my daughter(who is now 11.5) (biological father was apart of her life when it suited him) however to cut a very long drawn out proceedure short the judged granted my husband and I a residencey order which includes parental responsibility, this may have been different if she was younger, as someone said, the law changed and at the time of her birth her father didn't automatically have parental responsibility. During our court case the biological father didn't even apply for it (more full him). We explained to the judge that they may be a situation where we may move abroad for work and how would that affect us and bio father, she said that they would look into the best thing for the child and seeing as we have residencey order the child would stay with us, however the father could try to take us to court to stop us! (knowing him he wouldn't plus the judge would laugh in his face following his behaviour and lack of relationship with his daughter since the order was granted, just for info he also has a visiting order to see her every 3 weeks (which we asked to be granted to him so he couldnt say we stopped him from seeing her when she's older) but has seen her once in nearly two year, of which the visit was instigated by me).

I think it greatly depends on everyone's views including the child's and how far you want to go with it (courts?) and how much stress that can put everyone including the child under, not to mention the cost (FYI if she is in council house and low income she will more than likely be entitled to legal aid and trust me it is expensive. We ended up in a situation where we was representing ourselves and bio father had solicitor to represent him yet he is a sponging bum, so unfair:thumbdown:)

You have also got to look into if the child does go with you who would look after him and that is the discussion you have to have with your partner, what's happens if you two separate when you are in Aus what would happen to the child as I take it your partner is away more than at home with job! There is so may things to talk about (sorry to sound so morbid, but these things can happen!)

Good luck with everything:D. (it's not gonna be easy!)

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Thank you very much Emma! I did not even consider the legal aid thing! Dont be sorry for sounding morbid, with situations like these it is better to be direct so we know exactly where we stand.
Many thanks again, you have given me a few more things to think about :)

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Legally speaking I believe that under the Hague Convention your partner would not be able to remove his child from his jurisdiction of residence (ie the UK) without the child's mother's approval.

Morally speaking, I think you're right to be uneasy. Taking a 5 year old that far away from his mother seems extreme unless she is abusive or there is something you're not telling us. I'm shocked that your partner would even consider doing that. I'm a mother of 2 small children and I cannot imagine ever being separated from them let alone on the other side of the world. And it doesn't sound like the mum has the resources even to visit. And sorry to be harsh but your partner's attitude towards his child's mother and the importance of her relationship with his son (no matter what her imperfections or financial situation) doesn't bode well for you if you and he ever split up. :(

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate the input. Not a nice situation to be in :(

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Yep been there and its not an easy place to be.

A few issues for you.

Do you want to have a 5 year old who is not your child living with you if you have no support network and your partner has a job that takes him away from home a lot? Be honest with yourself on this one because if you do move and are allowed to take his son you will end up doing a lot of the caring.

If the child currently lives with his mother and the mother is a normal parent - eg not abusive, makes child go to school, cares and looks after said child with love and attention, then your partner's will have to make a very strong and well planned legal case. Assuming the mother won't just agree - you are in for a very long expensive legal battle with no guarantee of success.

5 is also pretty young for a long distance relationship to be easily maintained. My husband has done it with a 12 year old, but the first two years were really not easy. If you moved how would the child maintain relationship with other parent? We have contact twice a week on skype and two visits - one way for each party - a year. Will he/ his son be able to do this? That is a key issue for any court application.

Are you likely to get another RRV or are you planning to move before next year? Are you sure you will get another RRV? Child custody issues do not tend to get solved quickly.


Sorry to pose some challenging questions and really don't mean to rain on your parade, but you may find yourself in the horrible position of choosing Australia or your partner, or him choosing a life with you or regular contact with his son. Both put a big strain on a relationship.

Hope it works out for you - really not an easy one

Scotty

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Is the child's father's name on his birth certificate ? If so, he has parental responsibility.

Hope it all works out for you.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Thanks for this, really good to hear from people who have had similar experiences and can point out things I may not have considered.

Thanks again

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Yes it definitely is on the birth certificate, not quite sure how much of a difference parental responsibility actually makes?
Thank you

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

It makes a big differents in the eyes of the law. The judge made it quite clear that our case wouldn't of been so straight forward (if you can say it was :O) if bio father had pr, plus if he had applied for it during the case of which it could of quite easily been granted he would have stronger ground to try to stop us moving and even if we were to move 200 miles away. With pr you have as much right as the future of the child as the other parent.

Hope it all goes the way which is best for all :)

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Regardless of what courts may allow or not allow, I think it's incredibly selfish for a parent to take the child from the other parent, no matter what they think the other is like as a mother or father, they were obviously good enough at some point to have the child.

The child will always love both parents no matter how much money they have. To take a child away from its mother at any age will cause stress and anxiety and to grow up without a mothers love IMO would seriously effect the child.

I think what your partner wants to do is cruel and selfish, sorry I don't mean to sound harsh but I think he needs to think about his sons needs and not his own.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Parental Responsibility is a term in law as well as a remark or statement of fact. I accept it can be granted by a judge if application is made by a responsible adult or state intervention.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I hate this sort of post where one half of a failed relationship personal attacks the other.....just smacks of sour grapes and poor standards.
These posts also bring up the mother versus father rants and it really disturbs me.,....to my mind its the child who is the most important, not any parents feelings towards the other.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

There's a mother talking.......I was with you for the first part and then 'child from mother' crap starts. Child from parent should be the phrase.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I agree, the second paragraph really should have said "child from parent" for a more powerful argument.

in this case, I think the debate is academic, OP or rather OPs OH has little to no chance of getting permission to take the child that does not live with him to Australia if mother is against it.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Same here....its a very emotive subject and even the law finds it difficult to make a sound judgement. Caring for the 'childs interests' is not a task I would like bestowed on me as a Judge...its bad enough as a parent to get it right!! :)

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Back to the OP's question.............if he transfers to the RAAF he will still be flying and doing detachments away, bizarrely enough maybe even back to UK for a while!!
So YOU will be the main parent.........now, does that change things?

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

It's not very often that I feel the need to give you karma, but this is one of those times. It just sounds to me like more of a pissing contest than concern for the child's welbeing.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I may be a mother however, I was also a child that grew up without a mother. So I don't think it's crap at all.

Both parents are important but I think the bond between the mother and child is often stronger, don't mean to have a go at dads or anything, but evolution has made it this way. Women can only have limited children while men can have many. Women are programmed to be nurturing towards their own offspring while fathers are providers.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

Really? What would your father say about how inadequate you thought he was as a parent simply because of his gender?

If something happened to you would you prefer that your children be placed with a woman because their father wouldn't be "programmed" to nurture them?

I do think it's a load of crap. While I love my children, my husband is a far more nurturing parent than I am. He always has been. Evolution has nothing to do with that. It's just how our personalities are.

Re: Difficult situation - child custody
 

I couldn't give a shit what me so called dad thinks, I'm sure I've already told him my opinion.

I don't believe that children should be placed with a woman rather than a biological parent of course not, and as a stepmum I know I will never love his kids like I do my own. Don't mean I don't love em just not in the same way.

A dad is very important in a child's life but I do believe men and women have different qualities in bringing up kids and it's those qualities combined that brings balance.