xizzles

About 7 years ago, I obtained a Skilled Independent Visa (subclass 175) and promptly sat on my fat arse and did duck-all until the Visa expired.

In my pathetic defense, I guess I could say that I was working in Singapore, in a job that I loved and was being paid bucket loads for my effort - and I know if I made the move to Australia, I'd be taking home a fraction of what I was making.

Well, 7 years later, the itch has returned. My family and almost everyone that matter to me are in Australia. The wifey keeps pining for the Lucky Land (and you know what they say about a happy wife and life and all that).

So, with an urgent need to get rid of both the itch as well as some excess weight (I mean, once I get she-who-must-be-obeyed off my back, I lose 200lb immediately, right?), I started the ball rolling for yet another Skilled Independent Visa (now subclass 189).

I was also thinking of getting my foot back in the door via the Investor stream (subclass 188), but the thought of having my application lumped together with (no offence meant) money launderers and people who can't stop spitting on the streets and toilet-bowl squatters (I'm not naming anyone or any nationality!) was a little disconcerting, to say the least. So, subclass 189 it is for now.

However, the same sticking point that derailed my previous attempt at making the move is still, well, a sticking point. I know I'll be taking a massive pay cut when I make the move over Down Under (80% pay difference).

And while many would make the move for myriad reasons, surely, financial betterment must be an important consideration. It would then seem - at least on the surface - that by migrating over, I will be making a move that will adversely affect my pecuniary concerns, as shallow as it sounds.

Has anyone had the same concerns or issues? Or does the milk and honey truly flow freely in the Lucky Land for all and sundry?

Jeremy Clarkson once (in)famously said that people who migrate were all nimwits/losers who couldn't make it back home (to paraphrase) - and while I utterly cannot agree with that statement (or many of his incendiary flamebait soundbites for that matter), I really don't want to be the idiot that was doing so well back home, only to end up in a land that wasn't so lucky for me.

I guess what I'm hoping for from sympathizers, advice-givers, wise-sages, trolls, haters alike is some idea if, given similar circumstances: a good paying job at present, no major push-factors, no worries about the kids' educations/future (we don't have any) - would you still make the move?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts/brickbats/hatemail that may follow

quoll

It's just another first world country. No "luck" or "milk and honey" so if you have a better offer, do it. If it looks like a worse option then don't do it.

Buzzy--Bee

Milk is about $1 per litre. Honey is available for around $4 - $8 per pot.

BB

Beoz

Can you highlight the important paragraph here?

verystormy

What do you think oz will offer you

Beoz

Coming from Singapore. Cheaper cars.

astera

Are you mad? Housing aside, I would take a pay cut to move (back) to Singapore. Unless you are working 12 hrs a day and that is the reason you have had enough?

If you're raking in the dough then get a place in a nice area around River Valley and you'll shred those lbs way, way, way faster than you will in Australia. The river and those great walks that let you do a full circle around Marina Bay without even crossing a single street will get you going in no time. Same with heading to Orchard, doing a full loop, and coming back to the river the other way (either via Patterson or Clemenceau, depending on which way you do the loop).

Moving to Australia you are going to be driving everywhere (not conducive to losing weight), and food at restaurants is probably worse than in any other country I have visited in the last 10 years. Take Chinese cuisine for instance: in Singapore, a Chinese fellow needs to be a good cook in order to be a cook. Here he just has to be Chinese, dish out whatever, and people will still come around. Think of the lousiest, grossest food in Singapore and this is the creme-de-la-creme in Australia.

Even the one thing you would expect Australia to excel at... SEAFOOD... is lousy here. And in the supermarkets the fish you see look like they have been shipped from 1/2-way around the world with no refrigeration.

Need I mention the internet? This is not the 3rd world, it's the 4th world when it comes to internet access.

Give Australia a try, but if you have everything going for you in Singapore then I think you'll be very disappointed, very quickly, upon letting all that go and moving here. I do understand what you feel, because when over there you want to give it a try just to see how it goes. But reality will kick in quite quickly.

Getting back to the job position, are you really going to be happy working for 1/5 of that? Why not just keep going for a few more years, rake in the cash, and then move here not having to work any more and focus on passive investments?

ABCD......

That varies on location. In Capalaba/Victoria Point we had a great speed, but down in Pacific Pines near Surfers, it is pathetic. And that is from the same provider.

ABCD......

Are you happy where you are?
Do you feel you will stay happy there?
Would you be happy with a guaranteed pay cut?

I am normally pro Australia, but only when it seems better than the alternatives.

In your situation, I would be thinking a lot more about what you have to lose.

I feel you may just keep putting it off, and maybe with good reason

Beoz

Thats quite an amusing assessment. I haven't used my car in over a week in Sydney. Been to the beach this morning (walked) now off to the bogan rugby (bus).

You can't walk anywhere in Singapore through fear of drowning yourself in your own sweat.

xizzles

Thank you ladies/gents, for taking your time to contribute your thoughts. I really appreciate it. In particular, I'm quite curious about astera - your handle actually says "Dragged from Singapore to Surfers Paradise" ... was it difficult for you to make the move, and do you regret it?

astera

To be honest it is a huge jump (into a deep, dark pit) after you spend several great years in Singapore. I don't even know where to begin, because life in Singapore is like living in this bubble, a sort of Disney Land for both grown-ups and kids. Singapore is an expat paradise, with a great vibe and ambiance, with something for everyone, with absolutely everything out there at an arm's reach, restaurants, pubs, shopping, great walks, places to see, schools, hospitals, etc., etc., etc. It's super-safe anywhere at any time of day or night, taxis are cheap, the MRT is great, and if you need to get anywhere you have the world's top airport (and airline) at your doorstep.

Life in Singapore is magical for an expat; it's an expat paradise. Fair enough if someone is local in a low-paying job, living in an HDB flat, but in your position, making great cash and loving your job (most people I know made lots of money but were enslaved for like 12 hrs a day at the office), I cannot even begin to fathom why you would want 'out' of such an ideal setup.

Moving to Australia you lose SO, SO MUCH of what you have been used to and taken for granted over these years. It really is a tough move once reality sets in, and it will take time to adapt. Chances are you will start regretting it the moment the movers come in and suddenly you'll think, "Oh my, what have I done?"

Whatever it is you think you'll find in Australia, make sure it's not something that will wear off after one month. I moved because we need to live in Australia to complete my wife's residency requirements to go from PR to citizen. But overall I miss just about everything about Singapore except for the few things that I would happily do when on holiday in Australia for a few weeks.

Where are you thinking of moving to? Gold Coast? This is the only place that seemed "viable" after Singapore. I was about to write Australia off completely (skipping the whole citizenship thing for my wife) and head to Poole/Bournemouth in the UK, but visiting the Gold Coast put our previous plans back on track which is why we are here today.

Don't get me wrong, Australia is a decent place to live. The two top reasons are great wages and a great climate, which is why it is such a popular destination. But to move here from Singapore is painful (if you are an expat living a good life), and you only feel it once you actually make the move. Even when you come over to visit and make the decision to move you feel like it's the right choice - but when you actually do it it's a major downer once you realise what you've lost and how great things were over in Singapore. In a funny way you have to actually leave Singapore to appreciate all the good things about living there. And you will begin to miss them, trust me...

P.S. If you leave is it 'game over' in Singapore? Or are you a PR and could easily return to a similar position in your branch of business?

xizzles

Hi astera, many thanks for the reply & for sharing your frank views. To be honest, those were the same considerations that plagued heavily on my mind, hence the indecision back in 2007 - and, as it would seem, this very day as well.

As you've rightly pointed out, Singapore's an expat's dream - and I've been lucky, probably luckier than most. It's safe (if somewhat sterile), it's clean & for the most part, civilised and it treats foreigners (or, in Singapore-speak, "foreign talents") better than most other countries, despite the recent vocal minority's overhyping of anti-foreign sentiments.

I've made it home for the past 15 - 20 years, and I've benefited greatly from its generosity (not to mention its incredibly conducive business environment and ridiculously, laughably low corporate as well as personal tax rates!).

At this point in time, I run a company and I pay myself a commensurate market-rate salary (for which I'll be taxed at the top scale of 22%). The profits I generate are then mainly channeled to the company and taxed at 18% - can you believe that, 18%!

At the end of the financial year, I declare & pay a dividend to myself and that's done & dusted - tax free & most importantly, totally kosher and air-tight legit.

It would have been impossible for that to work either back in Blighty or Down Under - not when the socalist/welfare state takes nigh half of what I make, hence the 1/5 take home comparison.

If I leave Singapore, it IS game over. I can return anytime (my wife is a citizen, and I can leech off her passport if need be, to come back to Singapore), but I would have lost all my contacts and they would have moved on (I'm in a consultancy role) - time & tide, you see. And that's the other reason for the drastic cut in expected remuneration - contacts take time to build up, and I'll be dumping nearly 2 decades of that down the chute.

As for my choice of domicile in Australia, well, we have a couple of properties in Sydney and another in Melbourne. Nothing fancy, but those are all paid for & essentially being rented out at the moment. I was thinking of something drastic, like picking up a small apartment in Perth (4 hours away from Singapore), and then travelling on a frequent basis to & fro from Perth to Singapore - just so the requirements for PR can be fulfilled (I can foresee it'll be a hard ask!) - but it just seems so much work, for questionable (if any) gain.

Why then, am I even contemplating this question? Well, it's one that I've asked myself many times, but deep down inside, I know this paradise called Singapore can turn terribly expensive incredibly fast, if & when the gravy train stops pulling into the station.

And, I'm under no illusions about my ability to keep plugging away at the job ad infinitum. If there's one thing I've learnt in my 20 years in Singapore, it is this: Singapore will chew you up and spit you out, the minute you lose your economic relevance. It's the reality in this country, I came onboard with my eyes wide open, I chose to embrace it 20 years ago, and I hope I'm smart enough to dodge the bullet when my time comes.

I'm will miss a great many aspect of so many things that I'm sure I take for granted in Singapore - from the eeriely efficient civil service, to banks that open on Sunday (can you beat that!?), from my house in Holland (not too shabby a suburb in itself, and easily comparable to your suggestion of River Valley!) to the fact that I can walk to the Cold Storage near Sixth Avenue in the middle of the night and not worry about being mugged.

What worries me is that I'll wake up in Australia, begrudging the reality that it isn't really worth me losing 80% of my income for - and I'll end up hating myself for letting my wife talk me into it. Still, I suppose the logical thing for me to do is to get the 189 going as planned, and when I get the approval (my agent thinks it's a bloody given), put some serious thought into it (after all, I still have 5 years to decide), and then either keep my fat arse planted on the sofa couch in Singapore like the last time, or get off it, knock on your door for a cold beer & some shrimps on the barbie - my shout!

I suppose, there's a third way (the significant investor route, Visa 188) - we'd qualify for that as well, but my agent is concerned that DIBP could change the rules of that visa anytime (like how Canada did, to keep a certain population from a certain country from flooding its shores), so it's not a guarantee that things will work out via that route. If the 188 were still available come the time I'm ready to call it a day (say in 10 years' time), that'll be my visa of choice. Oh, damn it - I'm like a spoilt brat, wanting my cake and eating it too!

Anyway, many grateful thanks again astera for your comments. Reading the perspective of another person who's spent time in Singapore has certainly reminded me of the reason why I came over myself. More food for thought indeed sigh...

louie

If I was you I'd apply for a 189, validate it and forget about for another 5 years and then decide what to do. Or if your wife is really keen to move and you are not, get a 189, she can move and you can commute. 4 hours each way once a week in return for 5x the income seems a fair deal to me.

louie

Actually, I should probably add that that's more or less what we've done. I got PR back in 2007, got a 5 year RRV when 5 year discretionary ones were still available and we're finally moving next month. I've just sold my very niche and UK specific business and have no chance of decent income in Australia, though fortunately the sale proceeds and years of saving will keep us going for a long time, probably forever. Difference between you and me though is that I was ready to move on; the last couple of years at work have been a real struggle (emotionally) and I am looking forward to not working at all for the foreseeable future.