sloane46

Hi hope someone can help. My daughter will be 17 when we emigrate to Melbourne next June and will just have finished her AS exams after 1 year at college. I read on a government site that 6 As levels are an equivalent entry requirement to get into uni in Aus, My daughter has the opportunity to do 6 and was wondering if she would be able to get into uni if she did even though she will only be 17? Has anyone else done this? She also wants to be a doctor so I think it will be the university of Melbourne that she will want to attend. One of the course requirements is that she have 30pts for English but she doesn't want to do an English subject do you think this will stop her getting on the course? Please advise me as I am starting to believe I am going to mess up her future by moving to Aus. Last question can Aus citizens by descent get student loans?
Thanks

Swerv-o

I would be very wary of this route, particularly if your daughter wants to go on to study medicine.

As an ex 6th form teacher, I know that most of the UK universities require high grades in full classical 'A' level subjects in order to gain admission to study medicine. Many have a separate, special round of recruitment for medicine, about the same as Oxford and Cambridge do. I don't know what the entry requirements are in Australia, but I doubt that they are much different, using the equivalent local system.

Be VERY careful before you commit yourself to an irreversible course of study. Find out exactly what the entry requirements are, and what the equivalence is likely to be.

Also, find out what the potential costs are likely to be, and when the burden on you will become apparent.

Beyond that, I can't help too much, so good luck...

S

esperanza

This is purely a personal opinion, but I wouldn't have thought that six A/S (or is it A1s now?) levels would take any student to the level they would require for the first year of a medical degree. In addition, I wouldn't have thought that any seventeen year old would be mature enough to deal with a medical degree yet - most 18 year olds, and older, struggle.
As far as the particular course requirements go, the only certain answer would come from the university themselves - give them a ring or an email and ask whether they would accept your daughter's planned A/S (or A1, or whatever they are called!) levels. Seeing as you plan to move in June, and the aussie academic year starts in January, there might be room for some sort of stepping stone course to further develop her sciences or to go to TAFE and get extra credits towards a uni application.
Also do some careful investigating re the costs - depending on your visa status, there may be significant advantages to waiting until you/your daughter are PR or preferably citizens in order to access student loans & cheaper fees than international prices.
Wishing you and your daughter all the best with it!

NickyC

In NSW, you need the very best HSC results (way up in the high 90's) to get into medicine. It's one of the most difficult and competitive courses to get into. Some unis also have an interview process and additional exams as well. Can't imagine its much different in Victoria.

Sydney Uni doesn't even offer medicine as an undergraduate degree any more - you have to have another degree before you can start. I think it was because they realised they were churning out doctors who had no empathy with people, many could barely speak english and they were only in it for the money they could make.

The system is better now - at least it's ensuring that they only train people who have the right motives. As others have said, find out exactly what the Uni requirements are before making any decisions about your daughter finishing school at 17.

the murrays

[QUOTE=sloane46;5163091]Hi hope someone can help. My daughter will be 17 when we emigrate to Melbourne next June and will just have finished her AS exams after 1 year at college. I read on a government site that 6 As levels are an equivalent entry requirement to get into uni in Aus, My daughter has the opportunity to do 6 and was wondering if she would be able to get into uni if she did even though she will only be 17? Has anyone else done this? She also wants to be a doctor so I think it will be the university of Melbourne that she will want to attend. One of the course requirements is that she have 30pts for English but she doesn't want to do an English subject do you think this will stop her getting on the course? Please advise me as I am starting to believe I am going to mess up her future by moving to Aus. Last question can Aus citizens by descent get student loans?
Thanks[/QUOTe

Hi
you have to be citizen before you get a student loan, we were told this.
If you are going like on a 136 visa, then you can apply and pay the going rates similar to uk rates, out of your own pocket, this is still cheaper than applying for an overseas student.
MY daughter is hoping to do a degree in dentistry, uni's in australia have almost the same requirements, 3 As at alevel . Not sure about 6 a s levels.
My daughter is 17 and we have decided to go next year after she finishes her a levels.
Have you heard much about the melbourne uni?
keep in touch if you get any joy etc, I will let you know if I come across anything
siobhan

sloane46

Thankyou all for your replies

My daughter is a citizen by descent as I am Australian I was wondering whether being a citizen by descent was different to being born there when it came to student loans.

My daughter is very bright and although we are still waiting on her GCSE results she is expected to get A-A* results she has already got A* results for double science and mathmatics that she took last year and a distinction in a computer course that she took last year also. I am sure she will stand a good chance of attaining the grades she needs to get into medicine it would just be awkward if she had to do year 12 because of the time of year we are planning to arrive, and I have discovered that she would only get credits for units 1&2 which are year 11 even with AS results which seems a shame as she can get credits for them with just her GCSE's so she would have to wait until the new school year to do year 12. This is making her feel upset about going to college(for nothing as she put it) I suggested to her that we came earlier in the feb if the house sold which would allow her to start year 12 as soon as we arrive but she said she wants to sit her college exams or there would be no point in going college in September otherwise (ever feel you can't win with teenagers?) I have other kids and my next eldest would have already started secondary school here if we waited another year and I feel this would make things harder for her so I feel quite torn about what to do. Another problem with coming earlier is that I would have to give up my law degree which I am due to finish in May next year. If she could get straight into uni this would solve the problem of going in June.

The website I found about entering uni with 6 AS levels under UK qualifications is:
http://www.vtac.edu.au/common/osquals.html#U

I have tried to phone Melbourne university but so far no-one is available to answer my query so I will try again tommorrow and let you know what they say. Thanks again

Iwannabethere

Hi - another twopenneth coming

I am a secondary science teacher and my comments come from this position.

AS level is SOOOOOOOOOOO different to A2. I know that many people think of AS as half an A-level. It is. It's the easier half!!!!! The rigour of the curriculum at A2 is so much higher (which is why many students don't make it, either dropping out or failing) that it is a better preparation for Uni. I would be really concerned about your daughter starting Uni on 6 AS's at 17. The stresses would be unbelieveable:

1. New country and culture
2. Not being the same age as anyone else in your classes (makes a big difference when all your friends want to go for a drink and you're not even allowed in the pub)
3. Not having studied in this way before (uni learning and discipline are very different from school)
4. Not having all the subject information (e.g. AS Biology but not A2 means a big chunk of prior knowledge missing)

I don't know what the Uni retention statistics are for medicine in Oz. I know it is in the high 90% in the UK (was on a BBC website recently I think) but I would place bets that those dropping out were those that were seriously coached to scrape the grades needed (although your daughter sounds bright enough that she wouldn't need this to pass A2) and couldn't handle the pace. I am sure your daughter is intelligent enough to realise that she needs to give herself the best possible chance at Uni and IMHO 6 AS levels aren't it.

Also, you should be able to transfer your Law degree? Or get a transcript and official notification of points accrued to date so that you can register in Oz? If being done through the OU you are allowed to complete your existing course at UK cost too (or at least you were when I checked last!)

Sorry to have whittered on!

Adi

sloane46

Adi thankyou so much your comments (and you certainly didn't whitter on, just gave good advice), they are really appreciated. Am I correct in believing that you think it would be better to arrive in Feb? or do you think June would be fine as long as my daughter attends year 12 the following year. Knowing teenagers I have a feeling that if she got a job for the 6 months after we got there until she could start year 12 that she may throw her future away and decide she would rather be earning the money. Do you think she could catch up (or even be allowed to) if we arrived slightly later than the school term Feb start just in case the house takes a bit longer to sell?
Sorry to keep mithering

poppyjasper

Hi
I'm new to BE but I do come on here everyday to read how everyone is getting on.
I felt I had to reply though to your post as I'm in pretty much the same situation with my eldest son.
We plan on arriving in Oz (Syd) by the end of the year, if the house sells, so our other 2 kids can start school in Jan/Feb.
Our eldest Josh will start 2nd yr A-Levels in Sept and will stay here to complete them in June next year.
I wanted him to come with us and start Uni in Feb without completing his A-Levels but he doesnt want to. He wants to do Vet Science by the way.
I emailed a Uni in Melbourne (this was where we thought we were going at the time) and found out that it was possible to start there with just his GCSE's & AS Levels but he would only be accepted for the first year and then after that he would have to compete for a place for the following 4 yrs, not ideal but I would've prefered that to him staying here, but its his choice in the end.
Anyhow this is what the Uni said

Competition for a place in the Bachelor of Veterinary Science is very great so we'd expect that your son would need to achieve AAA to be selected.

However, there is another option.

The Bachelor of Veterinary Science (BVetSc) is a five-year course, consisting of a first year of basic science and then 4 years of veterinary science. Students selected directly into the first year undertake what is known as a "pre-veterinary year". This includes basic units of Biology, Chemistry and Physics. Those who don't get in immediately can undertake exactly the same classes in their first year, but within a Bachelor of Science program or equivalent. The difference is that the pre-veterinary year students are guaranteed a place in the full program (provided they achieve the required averages), whereas others must complete the first year subjects through a different program and then compete for the places into second year.

On the VTAC application form you are given an opportunity to list your courses in order of preference. So we suggest that your son makes sure that he puts the Bachelor of Science on his preference list. He may also study these prerequisite subjects at other institutions around Australia. These can be found at: http://www.vet.unimelb.edu.au/underg...cal_entry.html

I know its a different course and maybe a different Uni but it might be worth looking into.
From what I can gather the first year of the Vet course is just Physics, Chem & Biology, which is what he's doing his A-Levels in. I would imagine the Med course maybe the same.

Sorry for such a long post, I hope I've helped a little, Good Luck.

Poppy

sloane46

Cheers Poppy and good luck to you as well I hope everything works out for you

Ozzidoc

Here's my 2p

1. I went to an Australian (Victorian) uni at 17. Classes started in Feb, I turned 18 in May. My age DID NOT stop me from doing anything; many of the people were the same age as me.

2. I am now about to start my final (5th) year of a Medicine & Surgery degree in the UK. The people who dropped out of my course in the first year were school leavers who had been pushed into studying medicine by their family. Several people failed 3rd year and were allowed to repeat it. Again, all school leavers (out of 60% mature/40% school leavers).

However, med is a big commitment. I am AMAZED at the maturity of my younger friends, and have complete faith in them as practicing doctors.

3. Have you looked into the funding of the courses carefully? As an "independent" student, my course is free in the UK. The HECS fees for Oz courses for home students usually cover about 20% of the actually cost to the government (ie the government subsidises it). The overseas fees would be astronomical. If money is an issue, then consider this: to become a doctor, all one needs do is to satisfactorily complete a medicine/surgery degree thats recognised by the world health organisation. Then there are a few other steps after this, but that's the case no matter where you graduate.

Iwannabethere

Hi Ozzidoc

Thanks for your comments. I hope that I did not imply at any point that the OP's daughter would not be mature enough to study at degree level. That was certainly not my intention. I was looking at it predominantly from an academic point of view.

The OP didn't say when her daughter would be 18. There is the potential for her to be one of the youngest in her year. What if she is a January baby FAS? It could make a difference.

But my overriding concern is my fourth point which is the absence of 50% of the knowledge base. I assume (at my own risk!) that this was not the same for you?

BTW, thanks for your input on your experiences of people leaving courses early. There are very few statistics that I can find on this and it's good to have some first-hand info.

I have no problem with young people training to be doctors. I think young people show a lot of commitment to undertake such training and applaud them for it. I'd just like to be able to read the OP's post in X-year's time saying that her daughter has graduated, rather than a year in having really struggled and either failed, dropped out or hating her studies because she is playing catch-up.

Sloane46, this is really hard to answer. If it were my daughter I would feel happier if she did Year 12 at an Aussie school, got a chance to settle into her new country before adding the pressure of a degree, got to know how the Aussie system works and effectively, gave herself a chance to breathe rather than hit the ground running. This is only my opinion. My daughter is 2. I have a little time yet! Do feel free to pm me though if I can help.

Good luck to everyone out there having to make these tough choices!

Adi

sloane46

My daughter will be 17 on 11th of June 2008.

Ozzidoc can I ask what qualifications you had when you started at uni? Did you complete year 12 in Aus?

Thanks again to everyone offering me advice

Amandabee

I'm not sure if you have answered this, but you say you are worried if you arrive in June, and she gets a job, she then might drop out all together?

why not enroll in school she would then have 3 semesters worth of credits (not sure how the vic systems works I was a teacher in QLD) and then apply to Uni. Surely this and her As levels would be enough to get in.

Also I'm 90% positive that she would have to do entrance exams for medicine, and although I'm not sure when they are held, being in school would help 'channel' herself into this project.

I would say that arriving in a new country at a young age, and not going to school would really hamper her chances at finding age appropropriate friends etc. Also (sorry lots of also's) she may find that she is ahead of most of her peers educationally, but by completing half of year 11, she would be in a position to enroll in univeristy based courses for year 12's that would then help her entry. I know lots of Uni's in brisbane are doing direct entry courses, which upon completion offer direct entry. Probably not into medicine, but it would go a long way.

Also from a social point of view, I see many year 11 students making lots of new friendship groups from sem 2 onwards. It seems to happen that they go through a fairly major maturity phase, and lots of social activties that happen in yr 12 are 'hatched' in year 11. for example schoolies week where most students go to a holiday resort at the end of year 12 and do what year 12 students do. These are booked mostly at the end of year 11.. something else she might potentially risk missing out on.

I also confirm what another poster said about 6 As are not equivelant to 3 a-levels. Its not just the content but the skills learnt that are important. from a teachers point of view, get her into yr 11 do half and all of yr 12. You can't lose.

Ozzidoc

Sure - I completed my entire primary and high school education in Oz. ie Year 12 "VCE" (Victorian certificate of education) I did it when it was being transitioned from a one year to two year program....ie the last of the one year....if that makes sense? )