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Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Old Jul 28th 2003, 5:34 am
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Default Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

THE nation's $1 billion live-animal export trade was sustained by institutionalised cruelty and government inaction, the RSPCA said today.

The organisation's national president, Hugh Wirth, said the mortality rates within the industry had increased since the Government effectively deregulated the trade.
It follows a 60 Minutes report last night which claimed vets overseeing the shipment of sheep and cattle had been forced to lie over the number of animals dying while being moved.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...5E1702,00.html

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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:32 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Don't take this as an invite to get into a debate with me PB I can't be arsed.
Just thought I'd give you an insight into the U.K'S version
Where I came from ( Dover ),we've seen live export protests on a weekly basis for 10 years or more..The protesters still camp outside the docks (don't like having Big Macs thrown at em for some reason),and on the anniversary of that bird who died at Coventry airport (I believe) you can't move for bearded treehuggers (that's just the women).
Many a time I've chuckled at the wreath placed on the roundabout,with a picture of a sheep attached-found myself strangely aroused (why do I always type first,think later ).
Funny how all the suffering that our pensioners go through still,and these people want to sort out the fluffy sheep problems.They think nothing of hurting coppers with kids though.A few years back,they killed a lorry driver by hurling concrete off a bridge through his cab windscreen-is it worth it for a bit of fresh meat ?

BB-still politically correct.
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:36 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by baldbutts
Don't take this as an invite to get into a debate with me PB I can't be arsed.
Just thought I'd give you an insight into the U.K'S version
Where I came from ( Dover ),we've seen live export protests on a weekly basis for 10 years or more..The protesters still camp outside the docks (don't like having Big Macs thrown at em for some reason),and on the anniversary of that bird who died at Coventry airport (I believe) you can't move for bearded treehuggers (that's just the women).
Many a time I've chuckled at the wreath placed on the roundabout,with a picture of a sheep attached-found myself strangely aroused (why do I always type first,think later ).
Funny how all the suffering that our pensioners go through still,and these people want to sort out the fluffy sheep problems.They think nothing of hurting coppers with kids though.A few years back,they killed a lorry driver by hurling concrete off a bridge through his cab windscreen-is it worth it for a bit of fresh meat ?

BB-still politically correct.

The sheep in the UK go to France a jolly little cruise not to the middle east , you will fit in fine here no sence no feelings.

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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:38 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by pommie bastard
The sheep in the UK go to France .

Try Greece and Cyprus mr Encyclopaedipha Brittanica
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:41 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by baldbutts
Try Greece and Cyprus mr Encyclopaedica Brittanica
Fine still a shorter trip that the Aussie sheep has to endure and you have seen the state of the death ships in Freo or smelt them.




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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:45 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

I'm like,OOOOOH,
Whatever
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by baldbutts
I'm like,OOOOOH,
Whatever
Sure you are , not got a stink down in the land of the retired and workless too , the Freo doctor can carry shite a long way down the coast.

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Old Jul 28th 2003, 6:55 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by pommie bastard
Fine still a shorter trip that the Aussie sheep has to endure and you have seen the state of the death ships in Freo or smelt them.

Death ships, or Kiwi love boats?
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 7:04 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by renth
Death ships, or Kiwi love boats?
Why there are more sheep ( some of them have 2 legs) in Australia than NZ so why label the Kiwi's.

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Old Jul 28th 2003, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by pommie bastard
Sure you are , not got a stink down in the land of the retired and workless too , the Freo doctor can carry shite a long way down the coast.


Ooooooh.someones tired
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 12:29 pm
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by baldbutts
Don't take this as an invite to get into a debate with me PB I can't be arsed.
Just thought I'd give you an insight into the U.K'S version
Where I came from ( Dover ),we've seen live export protests on a weekly basis for 10 years or more..The protesters still camp outside the docks (don't like having Big Macs thrown at em for some reason),and on the anniversary of that bird who died at Coventry airport (I believe) you can't move for bearded treehuggers (that's just the women).
Many a time I've chuckled at the wreath placed on the roundabout,with a picture of a sheep attached-found myself strangely aroused (why do I always type first,think later ).
Funny how all the suffering that our pensioners go through still,and these people want to sort out the fluffy sheep problems.They think nothing of hurting coppers with kids though.A few years back,they killed a lorry driver by hurling concrete off a bridge through his cab windscreen-is it worth it for a bit of fresh meat ?

BB-still politically correct.

Just because some things are wrong, i..e. your comment on "the suffering of our pensioners" - what are you going on about anyway? It doesn't mean that one needs to close one's eyes to other issues that are very real and in desperate need of being remedied.

If you had ever bothered, or been interested in, watching one of the programmes that occasionally show up on tv about the live animal transports, you'd be hard pressed not to acknowledge that this is a huge problem where literally millions of animals are subjected to real suffering, just so that some people can make money.

The constantly given reason for the "need" for live animal transport is that live meat commands a higher price than dead meat. So the slaughter houses in Souther Italy or Greece or Lebanon pay more for "live" animals that are half-dead, by the time they arrive, than for carcasses.

I don't see how anyone can shrug their shoulders at what goes on with these transports. Sheep, horses, cattle and pigs are crowded onto lorries and subjected to transports that often take up to 40 hours - with no rest, no food, not even water and not enough place to lie down. The weak eventually do keel over and get trampled on by the others resulting in broken legs and huge wounds. At their destination many are so weak, half-dead, they cannot walk or hobble off by themselves, and are either dragged off, if they're lucky a sling is put on and they're lifted off. The even less lucky ones get an electric cattle prod stuck up their bum to "help them" on their feet.

I have seen several of these programmes, there are enough photos of these transports on the net if anyone does not believe what I'm writing, and dismissing that there is a real problem is callous beyond belief, and claiming that it's only "bearded tree-huggers" who are concerned is equally stupid. Of course if somebody throws a rock and kills a lorry driver that is unforgivable and the person/people who did were hopefully appropriately prosecuted.

But this does not change the reality that in the EU millions of animals are each year carted from one end of Europe to the other - some of the most ridiculous being sheep sent from Aberdeen to Lebanon - under the most appalling circumstances. Circumstances that one should think that we in the so-called civilized world should have put behind us decades ago, but which flourish solely out of greed and indifference to the fact that animals, while not being people, are still feeling beings that should be allowed to be treated in a decent, appropriate and humane manner.

And PB is definitely right that the problem is no less in Oz. Where sheep and cattle are sent on week-long sea trips to Lebanon and where up to 80% of an entire load died of heat exhaustion, in another case 50% died of similar circumstances. The Austalian law says that if more than 4-5% die in transport the transport company must loose it's license as they cannot guarantee transport under humane circumstances. A figure which is repeatedly exceeded. But do they ever take the license away? No.

So before you so flippantly dismiss information - even if it's from PB - I suggest you maybe check them out as sometimes there's more to issues than meet the eye.
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Old Jul 28th 2003, 11:53 pm
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by baldbutts
Ooooooh.someones tired
You write this , sorry its got concern in it , hows your parents still in the UK left them for some one else to care for?



Stop cruel sheep trade

AFTER watching the 60 Minutes report on the live export of sheep I would like to ask Agriculture Minister Warren Truss what he is going to do about this trade and when it is going to stop.

He has been told about most of these incidents before, I am sure, as have all previous ministers in his position. Vets and other independent observers have made similar reports on fires, lack of ventilation and feeding problems. Congratulations to Channel 9 for this coverage, now let us see action.

Stop exporting our sheep to these countries and let them eat dates. We could, too.

Stop encouraging the breeding of hard-hoofed animals on our arid continent. Arrange a symposium, if necessary, for some truly creative ways of feeding people. Perhaps the CSIRO and the health department could lead the way, making better health and nutrition a bonus for all in the ongoing fight against cruelty.
MARY REGTS, Inglewood. Perth




Last edited by pommie bastard; Jul 29th 2003 at 2:14 am.
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Old Jul 29th 2003, 2:10 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by sashimi
Just because some things are wrong, i..e. your comment on "the suffering of our pensioners" - what are you going on about anyway? It doesn't mean that one needs to close one's eyes to other issues that are very real and in desperate need of being remedied.

If you had ever bothered, or been interested in, watching one of the programmes that occasionally show up on tv about the live animal transports, you'd be hard pressed not to acknowledge that this is a huge problem where literally millions of animals are subjected to real suffering, just so that some people can make money.

The constantly given reason for the "need" for live animal transport is that live meat commands a higher price than dead meat. So the slaughter houses in Souther Italy or Greece or Lebanon pay more for "live" animals that are half-dead, by the time they arrive, than for carcasses.

I don't see how anyone can shrug their shoulders at what goes on with these transports. Sheep, horses, cattle and pigs are crowded onto lorries and subjected to transports that often take up to 40 hours - with no rest, no food, not even water and not enough place to lie down. The weak eventually do keel over and get trampled on by the others resulting in broken legs and huge wounds. At their destination many are so weak, half-dead, they cannot walk or hobble off by themselves, and are either dragged off, if they're lucky a sling is put on and they're lifted off. The even less lucky ones get an electric cattle prod stuck up their bum to "help them" on their feet.

I have seen several of these programmes, there are enough photos of these transports on the net if anyone does not believe what I'm writing, and dismissing that there is a real problem is callous beyond belief, and claiming that it's only "bearded tree-huggers" who are concerned is equally stupid. Of course if somebody throws a rock and kills a lorry driver that is unforgivable and the person/people who did were hopefully appropriately prosecuted.

But this does not change the reality that in the EU millions of animals are each year carted from one end of Europe to the other - some of the most ridiculous being sheep sent from Aberdeen to Lebanon - under the most appalling circumstances. Circumstances that one should think that we in the so-called civilized world should have put behind us decades ago, but which flourish solely out of greed and indifference to the fact that animals, while not being people, are still feeling beings that should be allowed to be treated in a decent, appropriate and humane manner.

And PB is definitely right that the problem is no less in Oz. Where sheep and cattle are sent on week-long sea trips to Lebanon and where up to 80% of an entire load died of heat exhaustion, in another case 50% died of similar circumstances. The Austalian law says that if more than 4-5% die in transport the transport company must loose it's license as they cannot guarantee transport under humane circumstances. A figure which is repeatedly exceeded. But do they ever take the license away? No.

So before you so flippantly dismiss information - even if it's from PB - I suggest you maybe check them out as sometimes there's more to issues than meet the eye.

What a good post, and I totally agree with you.

I find it quite sad that some dismiss animal cruelty and often will say something flippant as "what about the kids, old people etc etc".

Just because some people care about animal welfare it doesn’t mean that they do not care about the old people and so on.

Would a person say to an animal vet "why aren't you practicing human medicine? - What about the humans?"

I too ask these people who begrudge animal activists/carers "what are you doing to help the kids, old people, starving??? " Are you doing any community work? Are you digging into your pockets, are you rolling up your sleeves to help these poor people? If not, please do not begrudge others who actually are doing something for another life even if whether in “ your� opinion it's "just" for animals.

I have personally found that animal carers are some of the nicest, caring, giving people on this planet, if you can be cruel to something as innocent as an animal you certainly could be cruel to a human.

These cattle may be bred for food, but that does not mean that they should be treated with cruelty and suffer endless pain. You would not treat your dog like that why treat another animal with utter disregard.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not against eating meat (my husband is a meat eater) , I am against cruelty. This is one of the main reasons why I stopped eating meat 16 years ago – the way the animals are treated before death.

Britain has long way to go – but at least it’s getting there, there seems to be a lot more activists in the United Kingdom than in Aus. In Australia, “Animal rights� is not high on the agenda. On this issue, I liken Aus to how Britain was about 20 years ago
Cheers

P.S. - the animal activists who "go over the top" with violence are in the minority of "animal rights" people and give others a bad name. These people always hit the headlines as like anything in this life - newspapers report on the "bad" and are not too hot at reporting on the "good"
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Old Jul 29th 2003, 2:30 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by Ceri
What a good post, and I totally agree with you.

I find it quite sad that some dismiss animal cruelty and often will say something flippant as "what about the kids, old people etc etc".

Just because some people care about animal welfare it doesn’t mean that they do not care about the old people and so on.

Would a person say to an animal vet "why aren't you practicing human medicine? - What about the humans?"

I too ask these people who begrudge animal activists/carers "what are you doing to help the kids, old people, starving??? " Are you doing any community work? Are you digging into your pockets, are you rolling up your sleeves to help these poor people? If not, please do not begrudge others who actually are doing something for another life even if whether in “ your� opinion it's "just" for animals.

I have personally found that animal carers are some of the nicest, caring, giving people on this planet, if you can be cruel to something as innocent as an animal you certainly could be cruel to a human.

These cattle may be bred for food, but that does not mean that they should be treated with cruelty and suffer endless pain. You would not treat your dog like that why treat another animal with utter disregard.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not against eating meat (my husband is a meat eater) , I am against cruelty. This is one of the main reasons why I stopped eating meat 16 years ago – the way the animals are treated before death.

Britain has long way to go – but at least it’s getting there, there seems to be a lot more activists in the United Kingdom than in Aus. In Australia, “Animal rights� is not high on the agenda. On this issue, I liken Aus to how Britain was about 20 years ago
Cheers

P.S. - the animal activists who "go over the top" with violence are in the minority of "animal rights" people and give others a bad name. These people always hit the headlines as like anything in this life - newspapers report on the "bad" and are not too hot at reporting on the "good"

Another excellent post. Particularly

"if you can be cruel to something as innocent as an animal you certainly could be cruel to a human."

and

Would a person say to an animal vet "why aren't you practicing human medicine? - What about the humans?"

I am a meat eater but have much respect for vegetarians - it is not an easy thing to do.

You are also right about the newspapers favouring bad news and liking to send up people who protest against the status quo. I am always surprised how many people go through an entire life without questioning the way their world is run, but there you are. I don't mind if they end up agreeing with the way things are, but at least they should question for themselves.
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Old Jul 29th 2003, 8:25 am
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Default Re: Cruelty 'keeps live export afloat'

Originally posted by Ceri
What a good post, and I totally agree with you.


These cattle may be bred for food, but that does not mean that they should be treated with cruelty and suffer endless pain. You would not treat your dog like that why treat another animal with utter disregard.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not against eating meat (my husband is a meat eater) , I am against cruelty. This is one of the main reasons why I stopped eating meat 16 years ago – the way the animals are treated before death.
This is exactly my main point and what I tried to point out in my post. That we have no right to treat animals so cruelly just because they're bred for food. Apart from that, I resent being ridiculed for being concerned about the welfare of these beasts. It's so easy to be scornful of those who actually do something, or try to, questioning why don't you do this that or the other instead, while they themselves do bugger all about anything except be sarcastic.

It's a relief to read a post from at least one person who agrees and I always enjoy your posts on these animal topics, Ceri.

Sashimi
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