UncleKev

I think in general, most people who arrive in Australia and are successful in their new home and workplace are the ones that just get on with the job, make an effort to meet new people from outside their own culture, smile and expect to have a few cultural misunderstandings as part of the learning curve of adapting to a new cultural environment. The successfurl ones are too busy enjoying all the new opportunities to go around looking for covert racism under every rock.

As an example, my little team in Canberra are all off to a Yum Cha Restaurant tomorrow to celebrate Christmas. Our team consists of one English guy, One Aussie (me), two Indians (one male one female), one Vietnamese guy and a young man from Ghana, plus the Team Leader who is originally from India. We work hard but still find time to have some real good laughs winding each other up. No racism here folks.

I have noticed after working all around the world in multi-cultural work environments that the people who rant on about racism and try to play the covert racist card all the time are usually quite arrogant about their own culture and expect special treatment and a special red carpet to be laid out for them when they arrive in a new country. They are usually the biggest racists themselves.

Quite often these people are so seething with perceived slights and percieved racism that it comes out in the interview and they literally talk themselves out of a job. These types of people can almost smell racism in the woodwork and a good interview panel will identify that personality flaw.

When we hire new staff we want to know two things:

A. Can they do the job and
B. Will they fit into the team.

If a person telegraphs that they are highly sensitive to "covert racism" whatever that is, then we know that they will always be trying to read hidden meanings into anything their team members say, so they would not be hired because they would disrupt the harmony of the team.

viviennef

I actually didnt find it very bad in the UK but I think that is also down to there being a very very small coloured population where I lived in Wales. English are fair game wherever in the world you are so that doesnt count.

I have been shocked though by many new friends from the midlands and north and the openly racist comments. Its different regions I guess and different social problems that they face.

I am racist to a degree, I dont want to be and I dislike everything about that but I think its very hard not to find differences either uncomfortable or not to your taste. My racism tends to involve making assumptions based on race, generalising for a race and being slightly scared of some nationalities (i.e passing a group of a particular ethnic group on the street).

Vivienne

UncleKev

An interesting anecdote. While working in London a few years ago, we went to All Bar One in Holborn after work one evening for a few pints. During the discussion one of the white English guys in our team mentioned that there was a new barmaid and that she was the first "coloured" barmaid he had seen in there (it was usually Ozzies or Swedes). As a result of that comment our black colleague leapt out of his chair and had this guy by the throat and was about to beat his head in before we managed to separate them. He was in a total rage about the use of the term coloured to describe a black person. Evidently using the term "coloured" to describe a black person is racist.

It can be very difficult if you have such sensitive people in your team, because you never know which innocent word or phrase is going to set them off.

Barbitana

Thanks Vivienne for sharing your point of view. I think pretty much everyone could potentially have some assumptions based on people's race.

What I'm trying to say however is that your and my "feelings" should not affect company and government decisions. When you're qualified to get a senior position your accent, color of hair, color of skin, cloths, religion etc. should not be considered at all. And when you try to report a harassment issue these factors must not be "seen" at all.

A very good example of this is a famous Melbourne based company that hires only blonde aussies for pre-sales (i.e. 150K+) and "the others" for post sales (90K max) roles! and it will gross you out when I tell you they have separate offices...- I guess we fell into "the others" category

viviennef

[QUOTE=UncleKev;8174299] He was in a total rage about the use of the term coloured to describe a black person. Evidently using the term "coloured" to describe a black person is racist.
QUOTE]

I never know what to say - I lived in SAfrica where it was "the blacks",then I thought that that was also offensive. and of course some people arent black - I dont know - its all too hard. I used to go out wiht a black boy who was so hung up it was like a disability. I finished with him because it was all very boring.

Perhaps referring to a race at all is racist. Its like feminism - that also bores me. Vive le difference I think. I love culture and history and its the differences in people that makes life interesting.

My indian friend vignesh was telling me the other day that there are no gay men in india. I have been teasing him ever since about it and have offered to get him some indian gay porn. he isnt signing up though

viviennef

Not good at all - virgin famously got taken to court for agism with older hosties not giving out the image that virgin wanted. there were lots of jokes about jetstar being the qantas geriatric home.

all of these prejudices are alive and well here - but the key I guess is to keep smiling while not allowing yourself to be a push over. Did you put in a harrasment clai,?

viviennef

ignore my spelling too - i have a new tiny keyboard and its too hard to delete and correct

Barbitana

Very interesting point! had a flight to the US about a year ago and for the first time got a "Delta" ticket. Amazingly, almost all hosties were 40+ but *super* professional - really enjoyed the flight. But almost at the same time jumped on an Ittihad flight with a bunch of clumsy super models as hosties - aweful!

I guess this makes the point again that as long as you are able to do the job perfectly your age (again or accent or color etc.) should not be a problem at all.

BadgeIsBack

Personally coloured is no big deal, but it's not a word I've heard in 20 years and I suppose could be construed as being more patronising than anything else. Think the colleague over-reacted to be honest.

stormgal

This is by far one of the best posts I have read in my entire life on the Internet

WillBlack

Here is the Macquarie dictionary definition:
Race: noun.
1. A group of persons connected by common descent, blood, or heredity.
2. A population so connected.

Here is the Oxford dictionary definition:
Rrace: noun
1. each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
2. racial origin or distinction: rights based on race.
3. a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
4. a group of people or things with a common feature.
5. Biology a distinct population within a species; a subspecies.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/race_2?view=uk

The Oxford dictionary definition fails to distinguish ethnicity from race; ethnicity is deemed to be a shade of race even though people of a common ethnicity need not be of a common descent.

I imagine some lexicographer (and parliamentarians) is dutifully noting the shifting usage of the term in common usage in England.

In Australia that shift is not evident - people remain capable of distinguishing ethnic discrimination from racial discrimination.

kporte

A long winded admission that you were wrong, but thank you

WillBlack

I was neither right nor wrong but trying to find facts but was offered what were one unsubstantiated opinion after another. However, we got there in the end so thank you, once again, for the link which gave the clue as to where to find the indisputable facts.

The fact remains that Australian Law is more discriminating as to the various forms of illegal discrimination whereas British Law appear to lump disparate forms of illegal discrimination as all being racial.

For comparison here is the South Australian Equal Opportunity Act 1984

kporte

No worries. Personally, I think that it should be seperated into racial discrimination and plain discrimination. I have no idea why they chose to bastardise the proper definition as there was no real need. Put simply, in the UK, if I were to get the normal "jock" and "tightfisted" jokes aimed at a Scotsman, it is classed as racism. Strange but true.

FiP

It's similar in the UK, they have separate laws in respect of sex discrimination, disability discrimination and more recently an age discrimination law has come into effect.