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Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Old Apr 22nd 2017, 10:45 am
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Default Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Hi folks,

My niece is in her final year of qualifying as a primary teacher at Monash University and has been offered placements with an agency in various parts of London if she is interested in taking them up.

Any comments on these specific areas would be appreciated. (I usually only visit London from Scotland on tennis duties so mainly know SW19!)

Cricklewood/West Hampstead
Queen's Park
Walthamstead
Stratford
Wandsworth/Putney

I must admit my first inclination when my brother asked me for any advice is 'ask yourself why they are short of primary teachers in these areas'.

Thanks in advance for any replies.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Think you might find the cost of living anywhere near those would be the limiting factor. Check out how much she could pull down, compared to how much it would cost in rent. My guess is she'd have to live a long way away.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 12:09 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

My experience of London was "south of the river", mostly SW20, so walkable into SW19, but my thoughts would be to avoid Stratford and Walthamstow (or did you mean Hampstead as I don't think there's a Walthampstead ).

The reason for a shortage of teachers in Putney/Wandsworth may be the cost of homes there, but in a house-share it should be quite doable, and it's not a bad area. I Iived in Wandsworth for a couple of years, just a few minutes from the Wandsworth one-way system and the Ram brewery, before I moved back to SW20. .... If the school was nearish to a station then quite a wide swath of SW London would be available for a home, down to SW20 and Worcester Park.

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 22nd 2017 at 12:11 pm.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

I must admit my first inclination when my brother asked me for any advice is 'ask yourself why they are short of primary teachers in these areas'.

Thanks in advance for any replies.[/QUOTE]


I think your instincts are correct. Graduate teachers - let alone graduate teachers from overseas - do not get their pick of plum teaching jobs, unless exceptional circumstances apply.

That beings said, every newbie has to go through that process, your niece will be by no means alone. You break in where you can and then work your way up. In Australia, for example, that traditionally has meant working remote for a few years.

Working overseas is very attractive to new teachers and she will surely find many colleagues in London, doing the same thing as her, so she will not be isolated. If she intends to return to teach in Australia some day (and considering the pay differential - I imagine she will), she would be well advised to keep up her Australian education contacts, and possibly get advice on joining some Australian educational organisations/societies and being a active member remotely, so her contacts are growing rather than shriveling and her CV doesn't go to the bottom of the pile here when she wants to come back.

Good luck.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by GarryP
Think you might find the cost of living anywhere near those would be the limiting factor. Check out how much she could pull down, compared to how much it would cost in rent. My guess is she'd have to live a long way away.
Thanks for your reply (and Pulaski too - yeah, my mistake, Walthamstow as well as Cricklewood/West Hampstead, Queen's Park, Stratford, Wandsworth/Putney).

When I Skyped my brother he gave me more information about his daughter's situation. There are 2 agencies from London actively recruiting in Australia (citing population growth, males leaving the teaching profession, people getting promoted etc, etc as the reasons for the shortages). She has been to seminars for each agency and each covers a different area so I presume some of the areas I listed are in one and the remaining areas with the other agency. One agency which must cover the east side was extolling the virtues of some hitherto not so nice places which were regenerated by the developments for the Olympics. Without looking at the map it looks like one agency is covering part of N London and the other part of E London?

She has to make a decision within a month whether she wants a place starting in April '18. Both agencies are guaranteeing regular work either on supply or full time positions with a guaranteed income and they are also providing accommodation. They have teacher accommodation themselves and if these are full they'll find other places and they guarantee that she won't be living more than 30/45 mins commute from where she is living to the school she's placed in.

She's recently done teacher placements in (for Melbourne) 'very challenging' primary schools in Frankston Pines and Cranbourne with high ethnic population, children of single mothers, kids from commission homes, drug and mental problems etc and she actually enjoyed the challenge. She realises that some London primaries will be much more 'challenging' than her recent experiences but whilst young is looking for an adventure to Blighty and the challenge - or she won't do it or get the chance when she's older.

So, she's just weighing things up now. It appears, bottom line, there will be a job and accommodation to go to and she feels she hasn't got a lot to lose and isn't taking too big of a risk as the guarantees provide the safety net a lot of us didn't have when migrating!

(I remember now how me and my wife gave up our promoted, well paid posts in Bendigo and sold up our house to go to Scotland and knock on doors asking if there were any teaching jobs going!! The first Director of Education I spoke to covering the area my wife comes from which we went back to happened to be a cricket and tennis player and we ended up chatting about sport for a long time and then he said at the end of the interview he'd find schools for both of us. Changed days!)
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by carcajou
I must admit my first inclination when my brother asked me for any advice is 'ask yourself why they are short of primary teachers in these areas'.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I think your instincts are correct. Graduate teachers - let alone graduate teachers from overseas - do not get their pick of plum teaching jobs, unless exceptional circumstances apply.

That beings said, every newbie has to go through that process, your niece will be by no means alone. You break in where you can and then work your way up. In Australia, for example, that traditionally has meant working remote for a few years.

Working overseas is very attractive to new teachers and she will surely find many colleagues in London, doing the same thing as her, so she will not be isolated. If she intends to return to teach in Australia some day (and considering the pay differential - I imagine she will), she would be well advised to keep up her Australian education contacts, and possibly get advice on joining some Australian educational organisations/societies and being a active member remotely, so her contacts are growing rather than shriveling and her CV doesn't go to the bottom of the pile here when she wants to come back.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, your replied before I posted a 2nd time. Yes, niece is aware she has to cover all those bases should she return to Melbourne. I'm going to speak to her directly soon and I'll get more information 'from the horses mouth'. I'd imagine it will be a fixed term contract with penalty clauses if she breaks it before said time which is commonly 2 years. My wife was actually recruited by the Victorian Education Department just before she finished her degree at Aberdeen and ended up in Melbourne on a 2 year contract with a guaranteed job, accommodation, return flights paid for etc so there's an eerie similarity between what she did all those years ago and what my niece is thinking of doing now; only in reverse. Of all the tennis clubs in Melbourne she could have joined she chose to join my club and the rest is history as they say!
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

OzTennis, as you noted, things are different these days. Your niece wanting to do this is quite normal for young new teachers, and opportunities are available, not just in the UK but also Far East and Middle East. If there is some income and accommodation lined up, why not as she can always return to Australia (though be wary of any agency's pitch). Her first posting will likely be a challenging one (for a number of reasons) regardless of whether it's in Australia or in the UK. Just, she should be mindful (as I mentioned) about keeping her Australian professional contacts current.

Good luck.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by Pulaski
My experience of London was "south of the river", mostly SW20, so walkable into SW19, but my thoughts would be to avoid Stratford and Walthamstow (or did you mean Hampstead as I don't think there's a Walthampstead ).

The reason for a shortage of teachers in Putney/Wandsworth may be the cost of homes there, but in a house-share it should be quite doable, and it's not a bad area. I Iived in Wandsworth for a couple of years, just a few minutes from the Wandsworth one-way system and the Ram brewery, before I moved back to SW20. .... If the school was nearish to a station then quite a wide swath of SW London would be available for a home, down to SW20 and Worcester Park.
I've played 3 or 4 County Weeks in London. First was in Chiswick (at the Civil Service club) and the team stayed in Ealing; second was at the Police club in East Molesey and we stayed in a Holiday Inn I think in leafy Surrey; third was at the Bank of England sports ground in Roehampton and we stayed in Richmond, this is now where the LTA training headquarters are. The other time I played at SW19 and the Scottish team stayed in Wimbledon Broadway. You'll see it's all south west and I probably have an unrealistic view of what London is like. It's a long time since I've done the tourist bit in the middle and I haven't been to the east end etc.
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Old Apr 22nd 2017, 3:38 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by carcajou
OzTennis, as you noted, things are different these days. Your niece wanting to do this is quite normal for young new teachers, and opportunities are available, not just in the UK but also Far East and Middle East. If there is some income and accommodation lined up, why not as she can always return to Australia (though be wary of any agency's pitch). Her first posting will likely be a challenging one (for a number of reasons) regardless of whether it's in Australia or in the UK. Just, she should be mindful (as I mentioned) about keeping her Australian professional contacts current.

Good luck.
Yep, noted thanks. Even that has changed I suppose. The overwhelming majority of youngsters of my generation wanted to 'do' Britain and the continent, the 'mother country' and all that. The current generation will more and more look to Asia and (parts of) the Middle East for similar experiences because Australia has changed.
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Old May 23rd 2017, 6:26 am
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

OzTennis I don't know if you still need the information but as a Londoner (who previously lived in Oz), I can give you some background.

All state primaries will have kids from challenging backgrounds, though it will vary depending on the school (some have quite opaque admissions processes) and the suburb.

Cricklewood/West Hampstead - The run down part of super-wealthy Hampstead. There will be some kids from (Commission) council estates but also the very affluent. North-West London, possibly the most expensive area of London to live in or commute to.

Queen's Park - Apparently lots of Aussies live there! Large family terraces so probably a high enough proportion of affluent middle class famillies mixed in with urbane street-smart kids. Also NW London, zone 2 on the periphery of the again uber-wealth Holland Park/Little Venice to Hampstead belt so ditto.

Walthamstead - Increasingly full of Guardian-reading 'liberal minded' professionals who may work in respectable jobs in the media, charities and so. Traditionally a highly multi-cultural working class area so there will be challenging kids but also 1st-3rd gen immigrant kids who want to learn. NE London, surrounding areas more affordable. The 'innercity' London is close by (ie. Wood Green, Tottenham, Edmonton) but the greenery and relative calmness of Epping Forest and Essex county borders isn't too far either.

Stratford - Definitely the most challenging of the lot. Area is getting post-Olympics made over to attract new people so plenty of new builds and thus has a somewhat undeserved reputation as becoming gentrified or pricey (thanks to Westfield). This is because the baseline was so low and this really was a crime-ridden high poverty area. Stabbings in public areas are still not uncommon. East London has some of the worst poverty, council estates and thus dysfunctional families etc. Though with new people coming in, the area is changing. Surrounding areas are 'bleak' though but Stratford's new apartments whilst not really cheap are very large and great value. Stratford has been re-zoned so super quick and super-value for getting to central and going out etc.

Wandsworth/Putney - Very affluent middle class expensive. They'd probably be teaching the offspring of bankers, probably more Western European/'Expat.' Probably one of the easiest teaching gigs in London as even the poorer children will live in areas where crime etc are relatively low. Surrounding areas are very expensive.

One thing to note, though London has a high proportion of newly arrived immigrant children from low income/poor backgrounds, stats & studies have shown they are very keen to learn and tend to excel at school, as families place a very high aspirational value on education. To be blunt, London's education issues often concern white working class kids from local estates where unemployment and benefits is the norm, and school is not encouraged by the parent/s.

That said, London schools are very well staffed apparently attracting the best teachers. Hence, many well to do famillies are sending their kids to them and they are not really what they used to be like in even the noughties. Ie. Discipline, pupil behaviour and stabbings are more of a thing of the past etc (I have heard the horrors from Aussie teachers as well as locals). The other is that no one lives near where they work in London, the cheaper areas are there nearby, why the tubes and buses are rammed every morning!

Hope that helps....
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Old May 23rd 2017, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by GreenwichCat
OzTennis I don't know if you still need the information but as a Londoner (who previously lived in Oz), I can give you some background.

All state primaries will have kids from challenging backgrounds, though it will vary depending on the school (some have quite opaque admissions processes) and the suburb.

Cricklewood/West Hampstead - The run down part of super-wealthy Hampstead. There will be some kids from (Commission) council estates but also the very affluent. North-West London, possibly the most expensive area of London to live in or commute to.

Queen's Park - Apparently lots of Aussies live there! Large family terraces so probably a high enough proportion of affluent middle class famillies mixed in with urbane street-smart kids. Also NW London, zone 2 on the periphery of the again uber-wealth Holland Park/Little Venice to Hampstead belt so ditto.

Walthamstead - Increasingly full of Guardian-reading 'liberal minded' professionals who may work in respectable jobs in the media, charities and so. Traditionally a highly multi-cultural working class area so there will be challenging kids but also 1st-3rd gen immigrant kids who want to learn. NE London, surrounding areas more affordable. The 'innercity' London is close by (ie. Wood Green, Tottenham, Edmonton) but the greenery and relative calmness of Epping Forest and Essex county borders isn't too far either.

Stratford - Definitely the most challenging of the lot. Area is getting post-Olympics made over to attract new people so plenty of new builds and thus has a somewhat undeserved reputation as becoming gentrified or pricey (thanks to Westfield). This is because the baseline was so low and this really was a crime-ridden high poverty area. Stabbings in public areas are still not uncommon. East London has some of the worst poverty, council estates and thus dysfunctional families etc. Though with new people coming in, the area is changing. Surrounding areas are 'bleak' though but Stratford's new apartments whilst not really cheap are very large and great value. Stratford has been re-zoned so super quick and super-value for getting to central and going out etc.

Wandsworth/Putney - Very affluent middle class expensive. They'd probably be teaching the offspring of bankers, probably more Western European/'Expat.' Probably one of the easiest teaching gigs in London as even the poorer children will live in areas where crime etc are relatively low. Surrounding areas are very expensive.

One thing to note, though London has a high proportion of newly arrived immigrant children from low income/poor backgrounds, stats & studies have shown they are very keen to learn and tend to excel at school, as families place a very high aspirational value on education. To be blunt, London's education issues often concern white working class kids from local estates where unemployment and benefits is the norm, and school is not encouraged by the parent/s.

That said, London schools are very well staffed apparently attracting the best teachers. Hence, many well to do famillies are sending their kids to them and they are not really what they used to be like in even the noughties. Ie. Discipline, pupil behaviour and stabbings are more of a thing of the past etc (I have heard the horrors from Aussie teachers as well as locals). The other is that no one lives near where they work in London, the cheaper areas are there nearby, why the tubes and buses are rammed every morning!

Hope that helps....
That's very helpful thanks very much, I'll pass it on to my niece who now seems 99.99% certain to be taking up a job in London later in the year with exact details of where etc to be worked out.
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Old May 23rd 2017, 11:20 pm
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by OzTennis
I've played 3 or 4 County Weeks in London. First was in Chiswick (at the Civil Service club) and the team stayed in Ealing; second was at the Police club in East Molesey and we stayed in a Holiday Inn I think in leafy Surrey; third was at the Bank of England sports ground in Roehampton and we stayed in Richmond, this is now where the LTA training headquarters are. The other time I played at SW19 and the Scottish team stayed in Wimbledon Broadway. You'll see it's all south west and I probably have an unrealistic view of what London is like. It's a long time since I've done the tourist bit in the middle and I haven't been to the east end etc.
I know those tennis courts. I played football for a Civil Service team next door for about 10 years. Our home ground was the pitch right next to the courts. Beers in the little building after.

For a young person doing their first stint in London, especially on a teachers salary, shared housing is the way forward. If she has friends in London, best to hook up with them. It makes the change of scenery much easier and a good way to meet people.

Travel is generally unavoidable in London unless you can strike it lucky. For example, living in Balham and working in the city is an hour commute even though its the same line and 10 or so stops. Walk to the station at either end, delays, etc make it long.

Stratford is probably the lower end of the class level, Putney, West Hampstead at the top.
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Old May 24th 2017, 9:36 am
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by Beoz
I know those tennis courts. I played football for a Civil Service team next door for about 10 years. Our home ground was the pitch right next to the courts. Beers in the little building after.

For a young person doing their first stint in London, especially on a teachers salary, shared housing is the way forward. If she has friends in London, best to hook up with them. It makes the change of scenery much easier and a good way to meet people.

Travel is generally unavoidable in London unless you can strike it lucky. For example, living in Balham and working in the city is an hour commute even though its the same line and 10 or so stops. Walk to the station at either end, delays, etc make it long.

Stratford is probably the lower end of the class level, Putney, West Hampstead at the top.
Thanks for your comments which I'll also pass on to my niece. Talking to her father (my younger brother) last night she's finished her course at Monash and is going to work 3 or 4 days a week as a teaching assistant for 6 months to save up for her London stint which now looks like seeing her go in March next year.

Yeah, I have great memories of the Civil Service club as it was a special County Week when we played there; it was the 100th time it had been held and all the players at all venues got a trophy to mark the occasion. We played there from Mon to Fri and it was only on the last day that our team ventured to the bottom of the fields, climbed the bank and realised we were on the Thames near to one of the boat race bridges! (Putney?) We had an impomptu cricket match one night as well on one of the pitches.
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Old May 24th 2017, 10:26 am
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

why London? have you considered other cities/towns in the UK? Shortage of teachers in most places.
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Old May 24th 2017, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Comments on 'burbs of London for a Primary Teacher appreciated

Originally Posted by NHNH2016
why London? have you considered other cities/towns in the UK? Shortage of teachers in most places.
It's my niece and she wants to live and teach in London. End of as far as she's concerned.
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