Mamoo

Right, few bad deeds dont make America a bad country mate.
I understand your sentiments about China and from where you come from but the fact is Australia will never forget America ever, Aus is in debt with the good Gesture that America did during Invation. Dont forget Kokoda and Port Mosbi if you are a Ausi citizen -- its Bull shit to Kevin rudd sucking on china at the mo....
Besides America is the country which Chinese follow and hack their IP to make its own industry progress. Its will ages before China can innovate.
World can prefer a America a little bad President is all right than Aggresive and arrogant China.
Talking about war on Afghanistan mate you just need to get your histroy right - I would ask you to read some books and get some insight about what happened there.
Talking about Iraq its true the war was over Oil well not about Oil but Saddam turning and almost dictating OPEC to move the Oil deals from Greenback to Euros..
Well I can replace for a moment China with the US and think what would china do if it was powerful and there was no country to balance it; lets not forget China encouring N Korea and Pakistan on nukes (blue prints were found all along) even its nuclear scientiss and engineer had gone as far as Syria and Iran. China is interested in tit-for-tat action not interested in doing anything worth wild on world stage.. how many times did it favor sanction against rouge country or did anything useful while sitting on UNSC since 1950s? what it has contributed to Security and peace of the world? Infact it has supplied arms to Zibabawe for its own economics and was the only country to counter sanction against Mugabi...
Tibet was invaded and won in 11 days and since centuries Tibet resembled more or less like its neghbiour Nepal and India and there are no cultural, lingual or social connection with China - not a bit.
Taiwan has been socialist and it has split from China age ago..
What china is trying to do is to change the course of histroy buy threatening countries and trying to invade by any cost - those part of its country which were split ages ago.. lets not go 50 or 10000 yrs back... China will have a fair share to loose and it will bring down the Asia-Amecian continent alike..
Communist party hasnt done anything so far; there are far more cases of human rights issues, Felong gong is another cases where body harvesting is rife (recall George Negus excellent relay in Date line program), Religions freedom is strifled, natives are harrassed and forced to convert or give up their rights etc... do u even know how many people are killed behind the prison where there is no rule of law or no court hearing but just on suspicion.
Both Rabia Kader and his holiness Dalia Lama are Nobel Laur...they deserve respect... just FYI, all the 4 children of RKader in china are behind bars under tax or insicting voilence and no one has heard bout those men/women since they have been arrested..
in short, That shows a great china and chinese govt.. cuddos...
Country is just not great by its economics it has to be great by the action and what it does for society good... yea some mistakes are acceptable by some president but to rule out the US is idiotic or uneducated brain.
China will come and go, US will be there for good.. ecnomics alone does not play the part its the reason the nation stands for matters the most..
its another story Kevin787 had done lot of flips and had too little or i would say had B@lls to talk openly to Chinese counterpart incase of Rio Tinto or any other issues...

ozzieeagle

I spent quite a few years in RSL's in my early years in this country, and most genuine diggers dont paint the Americans in quite such a rosey light as you seem to think they do.

I've got stories of diggers being left for dead, up in Port Moresby whilst they managed American wounded close by. I've also got stories of Americans smashing their equipment in Australia, repeat in Australia, rather than let Australians have it. I'm Talking trucks/Generators/waterpumps/ cooking facilities and huts etc.



So maybe politically there is a favour owed, but up close by people that were actually with them it's a totally different story. So try having a chat with a real digger and see what they tell you about the Americans.

Mamoo

What you say has a poin I dont disagree with you.
I would still stress a small battalion or few troops mis-behaving dont make the whole army bad. the US came with good intentions and they did stoped the invation; here right at the corner.
No offense, but I have understood is diggers would have not helped in stopping any invation with what they used to do, be it alone Australia would have invaded far too easily.

To be honest with Iraq Fiasco something happened to the world where everyone enjoys bashing the US just cause its standing first to sanction rougue counteries, freedom of speech and media has only done bad at time of crisis for the US.
I am no big fan of the US and some of its junk foreign policy but the US and the UK did a good job in some major issues in the world at some point of time, unlike countries like China of sitting in UNSC like a dummy and blocking sanctions for rougue countries to benifit its economy - be it NKorea, Iran, Syria, Zimbabwe etc. Thats the point.

fish.01

If it was a straight choice between a democratic USA vs a communist led China give me the democrats any day. American democracy may have its faults but it is far better than communism. I hope the communists never reach full super power status, they cannot be trusted.

Mamoo

I was looking for the Quad formation US-Aus-Ind-Japan in security and military; The US convienced India, Australia (Mr Rudd) did a black flip, Japan awaited Aus move before partially giving approval...
Long spend hrs of hard work by John Howard for Security and benifit of Aus was wiped out in just a statment by Rudd.
At one stage our Intelligency, ASIO and marine agency publish a document that the biggest threat to Asia, Australian and around the rim of pacific will be coming from China and far worse they are taking the missles to space and no country is safe from China be its marine or land so we Aus has to prepare and procure weapons to defend the water and land, while on other side Mr Rudd rubishes the whole report and breaks the Quad.
I just dont get it, Aus is a properous and it has its own legacy of war unlike Swizerland... so is the govt still sleeping or pretending to bury its head below the sand like an Ostrich...

brizzle

It is amazing just how much money some Chinese people have. To give you some perspective of the situation here in Vancouver, Canada, average property prices are up to around C$600k (houses nearer the $1m mark), yet average household incomes are only around $55-60k (that's household not individual). Asian people make up nearly 50% of the population here now.

dave_wong

I have to agree with you on this, mate.

An arrogant China. Hmmm... maybe you are right here. Aggresive??? I beg to differ. Perhaps you should read up some books about Chinese history in order to get a better understanding about the people. China was a world power when Europe was in the dark ages and American was still non-existance as a nation. Admiral Zheng He started to sail to south Asia and Africa via the Malacca Straits in the early 1400s. That is almost 100 years before Chirtopher Columbus discovered America!! His armada comprised of 20,000 men and 300 ships... each with 8 masks and 3 levels in height. Whereby, his other counterpart that discovered America sailed in ships that have only 3 mask and 1 level. My point is .... The Chinese could have colonised Malaya, siam, the Majapahit empire, South Asia and the African continent but they did not. Their intention was only to trade. Unlike the Europeans ....

You could look at a civilisation's past to predict the future.

I know very well what happened in Afganistan. I gained my knowledge through books and documentaries. I know who armed and trained the taliban back in the 1980s, when they were fighting to oust the puppet govt and eject the USSR's presence from the country. The very people that Uncle Sam trained are hitting back .... Maybe Uncle Sam has forgotten to teach these people 'not to bite the fingers that feed you'.
[/QUOTE]

Yes .... agree with you on this. But does this give Uncle Sam the right to invade the country??? Dont tell me about the WMD and the Kurdish bullsh!ts. Iraq was a relatively peaceful country prior to the invasion. At least majority of the people could roam in the streets without the fear of being gunned down or blown apart by some IEDs.[/QUOTE]

I am sceptical about the first portion of your statement. I know Pakistan had assisted N Korea in the development of Nuclear arms (It was in the news anyway). However, I dont have an re-collection reading or hearing about China rendering their assistance to Pakistan in their Nuclear build up, or even their scientist's visitation to Syria and Iran.

Tibet was apart of China ... go google and do some research, mate.

You are way off mark over here, mate. Taiwan is technically still apart of China. Taiwan is not recognised as a country even in the UN. Taiwan is just the name of that Island. Its govt still refer Taiwan as ROC.. Republic of China!

The Nationalist party led by General Chiang lost the war to Communist Mao and have to retreat to the island back in 1949. General Chiang was supposed to used the Island as a staging point to rearm the KMT forces and take back China but that did not materialised. The politicians of Taiwan and China have often discussed about reunification... I envisaged both countries to be reunifed with Taiwan being the SAR of China... just like Hong Kong and Macau.

In summary, I would have to agree with you that communist ideology has failed. China is technically still a communist country but if you have been there for business or visit, you will think otherwise. The country is by large, very market driven.

I agree with you on China's bad human rights record. I don't know much about thr Falungong movement and how it will impact the country. Hence, I will not comment.

I am not too sure if China will come and go or if the US will be in existance forever. Once again, I will look at the civilisation's past to predict the future. The Chinese civilisation has been in existance for more than 5000 years and it has continue to exist and thrive in today's world. America only has about 300 years of history.... I also remember Napoleon Bonaparte once said of China, "Let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." China has been asleep for the past 500 years and she is wide awake now ....Lets see what will happen next. I will be sitting in my al fresco, sipping a cup of coffee, and read the news of China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy in 2020, if not sooner.

Last but not least, it has been a good discussion but I think we have swayed away from the original topic. My apologies to the individual who started this topic

Geelong Gent

[QUOTE=dave_wong;8550657]The Chinese civilisation has been in existance for more than 5000 years and it has continue to exist and thrive in today's world. America only has about 300 years of history.... I also remember Napoleon Bonaparte once said of China, "Let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." China has been asleep for the past 500 years and she is wide awake now ....Lets see what will happen next. I will be sitting in my al fresco, sipping a cup of coffee, and read the news of China overtaking the US as the world's largest economy in 2020, if not sooner.


http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=...US:CHN:GBR:USA
think about aboriginal history or west african or south american?

lapin_windstar

You need to link that to offshore investment to make any of that relevant to the legislation, the investigations or this thread.

Mamoo

Mr. Wong you have successfuly hi-jacked the thread. so congrates
Now let me ask you are u one of those chinese who are brain washed with Chinese communist propganda at school when you were there?
You have disected my whole thread and suit to reply as you want. Even so let me reply you to all your arguments and close this thread from myside.
happy?

We are not talking about Exploration, we are talking about the communist regime in power after Zedong who have taken some aggresive stand on the world stage. Like China, even Mayan, Egypitan and Indian have their own Civilization lets not forget Mesopotamia.. so your point is?
Well to be honest, i would beg to differ if Chinese had no intention to invade other places; it was itself struggling in dynasties and rulers, no wonder they could go out of china and frequently got attacked by Mongols, not because they had civilisation but they were infighting and there were walls build within provinces to safe guard their own interests.
Not really, you cant define future based on past - dont just brand people if they had great civilization or had worst past - Thats like making uneducated guess.
You forgot the cold war the US had with Russia for 30 yrs.. I think what Americans did was to play cold war wisely but if you look at my previous posts what they left was a shit - there is a interesting movie based on the facts Charlie Winston's War - summarizes what he said... everyone knows that.. yea go beat up Americans...
Sorry moot point, Americans are not in Iraq to invade, there was a politics to over throw Saddam because he played up with OPEC and pushed every country except Saudi's to start trading in Euro.. politics aside they successfully overthrow Saddam but they did not throught of the outcome, hence its still drowsed in Iraq.. and yea mate, they learnt their lessons in Afghanistan by quiting too quick hence they are stay put in Iraq.. I dont think they have invaded Iraq they will soon or later moving out.. i dont know where you got impression.
Well anywar has its legacy, mate but its America who has the highest amount of peacekeeps, military aid, Red cross donation and donation for charity compared to any other country in the world... It was American ships who came to help China during Earth quake and were warned of attack if it proceeded in India Ocean because chinese were suspicious about American's Intent. There were holed up for a week before Chinese gave clearance...
Well I guess what i said is true, i feel sorry for your recollection.
Yes done my research. Before and after Mao came to power Chinese has foreign office in Tibet because it was never part of China. They had foreign office in Tibet where any chinese coming to Tibet were to be reported or access was granted but only ministers were approved the grant not locals. Once Tibet realized that chinese were conspirating to overthrow the Tibet army by bribing the officers all the Chinese delegation and minsters were expelled.
Ngawang Jigme was in charge of Tibetain army depot who was bribed by chinese and because of him Tibet lost the war in less than 2 weeks.
If Tibet was a part of china, China would not send deligation to Tibet and force Tibet to accept China as their mother land or face the consequence of war...
Well I think i said enough but u got read books and and articles to understan what happened, I understand your chinese sentiments but that does not make right wrong.
Well I would love to disagree with you on this one...
Its China blocking, since last 4 decades, the recognition of Tiwan since its part of UNSC. I just hope if India would have not played stupid to give away its own seat to China after its Indepedence than Tiwan would be recognized as independent country..
Talking about India offering its seat to China in response to that China attacked India just because it offered refuge to Dalia Lama.. good returns and no wonder the world dont turst china... If China would have learnt about India a bit more then it would know, it was India who gave refuge not only to The Dalai Lama, they gave refuge to Parsis of Persia and so many Jews during WWII, there are lot of Bangladeshis, Tibetains, Bhutanese and Nepalises who feel more at ease in India than any their own home land...
Attacking India is a biggest blot on China - just because Mao could he did it, India lost the battle but china could not hold the pretext of the war for the land because its army retreated after invading the land for what they fought the war for... In short it was never their land and the cause of war was Dalai lama and to teach India a lesson - I guess India learnt their lesson, well quite not.
you are one hell of a optimistic guy...
Well China will end-up supressing Taiwan like what it did to HKong and Macau in the name of decomcary and other mess...
I doubt China is stable in the way it potrays to the world..
but hey, what ever feasts your brain and eyes...
Its the US who is pushing China on HR records and Fulong gong records, you can atleast pay respect and credit for that.. Unlike our Mr Rudd.
I am sorry you are quite off with your knowledge about HR but much move involved politicially and much more emotional about history of China.. great!!
Yea right... just to highlight the fact about civilization and current situation:
- It was the Chinese rulers who thought phlosophy was a rougue and religion was position, they completley burned down Confucius rare letters, writings and philisophies
- It was chinese rules and during Mao who burned down and bombed so many Buddhist caves and preachings
- China is a biggest hacked in the world of IT, its trying to steal R&D work of so many comapanies so that it dont have to invest in R&D work and sell things at penny prices then any European car or American inventions
- China is know to steal State secrets and army intelligence to make its own weapon.. It has constantly denied shooting down its own satellite, taking the war to space hence encourging other Asian counteries.
well if their scientists and people were so great, they would not be plagiarizing everything from songs, to copyright stuff, and I would see more noble laureates and Scients in Science journals but i cant find many... makes me wonder a lot about their innovation too.

All this make me wornder is China real contender to be welcomed on world stage at this point or in future...
I will close the topic for good...