Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:17 am
  #136  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
Yeah I guess tax payers have every right to sound resentful of corporations demanding bail out money when these same corporations boast to share holders on billions of dollars in profit in previous years. But the idea that I would be resentful of a corporations success is very juvenile of you. Success in business is admirable when it's achieved by merit and not substantial handouts to maintain an already healthy bottom line.

If you agree that corporate welfare is not handled correctly and that we need corporations to survive as they hold too many jobs at risk, then you admit we are held to ransom by them. They have no moral responsibility to aid our economy but the tax payer has to carry that burden. The tax payer who funds the infrastructure and government that these corporations benefit from. The corporations who insist their importance to the economy is bigger than the economy itself. Yes, we should be resentful. Not of these corporations but of the mentality allowed by governments to fleece us of money that should be building roads, schools and hospitals.
No. You are trying to get me to admit something - your call. I'm trying to spark a discussion on the benefits of corporate tax breaks. I'm trying to start and zero, no benefits, and work up from there.

I'm really non fussed either way. Its just money floating around the system after all. What I'm trying to discover is if corporate tax breaks allow governments to receive more money at the bottom line, because if not, then we might as well do away with them .... right? Maybe not so black and white?
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:22 am
  #137  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by GarryP
Ooo, bad fight to pick.

See, I know quite a bit about this area, and I can tell you a few things:
  1. Yep, you almost certainly could get a plane for tomorrow, and no, that ain't great for the biz model of those airlines etc.
  2. Most private jets are bloody terrible for flying to out of the way airfields not serviced by normal scheduled services - they need nice prepared, and long, runways.
  3. Even if the above didn't hold, there are still leasing solutions that will give you part share in jets at much reduced costs.
Face it, private jets are generally a perk for board members, paid for by the company and thus the tax payer, so they don't have to rub shoulders with the plebs. Saying that those overpaid board members should be buying their own jets is not going to bring down western civilisation, quite the reverse.


And coming back, once again, to the actual point of this whole thread - if it's a choice between GST on food, and slicing through tax loopholes like this, well any decent person would be plugging them loopholes. We were presented with a statement that there was no other choice, that GST had to rise - and that's been conclusively demonstrated to be b*ll*cks - it's a choice of who you think should be paying.
Well a loophole can only be plugged if the popular decision thinks its a loophole. If you and I can't agree on the private jet then what hope do we have.

GST it is then.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:25 am
  #138  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
No. You are trying to get me to admit something - your call. I'm trying to spark a discussion on the benefits of corporate tax breaks. I'm trying to start and zero, no benefits, and work up from there.

I'm really non fussed either way. Its just money floating around the system after all. What I'm trying to discover is if corporate tax breaks allow governments to receive more money at the bottom line, because if not, then we might as well do away with them .... right? Maybe not so black and white?
And how do you plan to work that out? If you want those sort of numbers, you're not going to get your answer here.

But there are obvious abuses of tax return claims by corporations. Do they cost us more than the welfare to the poor who abuse the system? It would be very very likely, especially if we're paying for jets.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:25 am
  #139  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Well a loophole can only be plugged if the popular decision thinks its a loophole. If you and I can't agree on the private jet then what hope do we have.

GST it is then.
What is a loophole and do you believe they exist? I'll keep these simple for you.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:30 am
  #140  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
And how do you plan to work that out? If you want those sort of numbers, you're not going to get your answer here.

But there are obvious abuses of tax return claims by corporations. Do they cost us more than the welfare to the poor who abuse the system? It would be very very likely, especially if we're paying for jets.
Well I'm sure some of the bright sparks on here would have a compelling argument that corporate tax breaks costs the economy more than the breaks make the economy. Again I don't know the answer - if I did I wouldn't ask - I'd tell.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:31 am
  #141  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
What is a loophole and do you believe they exist? I'll keep these simple for you.
Yes - I'll keep it simple for you in return.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:43 am
  #142  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by GarryP
Face it, private jets are generally a perk for board members, paid for by the company and thus the tax payer, so they don't have to rub shoulders with the plebs. Saying that those overpaid board members should be buying their own jets is not going to bring down western civilisation, quite the reverse.
It can be argued as a way for board members to close multi million dollar deals at short notice. Having those funds transfer because the tool enabled them to do so flows back into the economy in tax, jobs, etc.

There are also many cases in the US where the private jet was not deemed a depreciating asset because it was used too much for private use. Its not a one way street.

It has to be used for purpose.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:51 am
  #143  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Well I'm sure some of the bright sparks on here would have a compelling argument that corporate tax breaks costs the economy more than the breaks make the economy. Again I don't know the answer - if I did I wouldn't ask - I'd tell.
Right, you don't know the answer. Hold that thought.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:52 am
  #144  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Yes - I'll keep it simple for you in return.
Indeed.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 6:53 am
  #145  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
It can be argued as a way for board members to close multi million dollar deals at short notice. Having those funds transfer because the tool enabled them to do so flows back into the economy in tax, jobs, etc.

There are also many cases in the US where the private jet was not deemed a depreciating asset because it was used too much for private use. Its not a one way street.

It has to be used for purpose.
If it works for them, they can fund it themselves. If they are making multimillion dollar deals because of it, they can afford.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:08 am
  #146  
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
 
GarryP's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
GarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond reputeGarryP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
If it works for them, they can fund it themselves. If they are making multimillion dollar deals because of it, they can afford.
Exactly !

Actually when it comes down to it, I AM happy with some company tax advantages, but they have to be for SMEs. Those are the companies that create the new jobs, and where the profits stay in country - and they aren't buying many corporate jets.

And I'll say again, the rentseekers and making money from money tricks are where the bulk of the tax needs to fall - help positive, growth activities, and tax those where the money isn't earned.
GarryP is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:18 am
  #147  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
If it works for them, they can fund it themselves. If they are making multimillion dollar deals because of it, they can afford.
Let me ask, what's your stance on business cars, trucks, and tax claims on business travel in general. Businesses can fund them too? What about stationary? Training, computer equipment, etc? They can all be funded by businesses 100%. Should we have zero tax relief on any of those items? Some and not others? If the business was closing a multi million dollar deal and the guy closing the deal was travelling on a commercial airline? Should it be claimable? Non claimable because the deal is worth multi millions or claimable because the deal fell through because he got no sleep in economy class?

50 questions I know but I'm having a tough time understanding where your prejudices lie.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:29 am
  #148  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Let me ask, what's your stance on business cars, trucks, and tax claims on business travel in general. Businesses can fund them too? What about stationary? Training, computer equipment, etc? They can all be funded by businesses 100%. Should we have zero tax relief on any of those items? Some and not others? If the business was closing a multi million dollar deal and the guy closing the deal was travelling on a commercial airline? Should it be claimable? Non claimable because the deal is worth multi millions or claimable because the deal fell through because he got no sleep in economy class?

50 questions I know but I'm having a tough time understanding where your prejudices lie.
I've already made it clear where I stand on welfare full stop. If you don't need it, you shouldn't get it. If you need it, justify it. Poor people and disabled people are means tested and often fall through the cracks of not being eligible. The same level of means testing is not done in business.

Other types of welfare such as paid parental leave are not means tested and the newer version pitched by the government simply allows those who don't assistance, get welfare. I stand against that mentality. If you need help and we can afford it, we should give it. If you don't need it and simply claim because it's your entitlement, you are hardly helping the economy or budget.

Fairness is important and greed needs to be stopped. Growth in business will not be stunted by not giving rebates on luxury items.
knockoff nige is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:52 am
  #149  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Beoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond reputeBeoz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige
I've already made it clear where I stand on welfare full stop. If you don't need it, you shouldn't get it. If you need it, justify it. Poor people and disabled people are means tested and often fall through the cracks of not being eligible. The same level of means testing is not done in business.

Other types of welfare such as paid parental leave are not means tested and the newer version pitched by the government simply allows those who don't assistance, get welfare. I stand against that mentality. If you need help and we can afford it, we should give it. If you don't need it and simply claim because it's your entitlement, you are hardly helping the economy or budget.

Fairness is important and greed needs to be stopped. Growth in business will not be stunted by not giving rebates on luxury items.
Ok so we are back to square one. Taking from the rich to give to the poor which we do anyway now as part of income tax and various other means testing methods. But you do tend to ignore the hard cold facts to suit your own argument.
Beoz is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2015, 7:59 am
  #150  
BE Forum Addict
 
knockoff nige's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
knockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond reputeknockoff nige has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz
Ok so we are back to square one. Taking from the rich to give to the poor which we do anyway now as part of income tax and various other means testing methods. But you do tend to ignore the hard cold facts to suit your own argument.
Spell out the hard cold facts for us.

Taking from the rich and giving to the poor is just too ridiculous to take seriously. If you earn more, you pay more. That's a moral and beneficial obligation. Moral because you are ensuring that people less wealthy then you can afford the same level of education and health care which promotes a better, more educated and healthier society. Beneficial as the more the lower income earners can afford to spend their money, the wealthier the rich will get.

But please, show me the hard cold facts.
knockoff nige is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.