Bunch of Nazis!

Old Dec 30th 2003, 10:13 am
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Default Bunch of Nazis!

Looks like they want to ban us taking our children out of school in term time. While (as a teacher) I disagree with truancy (I don't see a short holiday as truancy). I think this is another example of big brother getting too big for his boots. We took our daughter out of school for 10 days last year, with the schools permission, to visit my parents in Greece. During that time she climbed mountains, saw eagles, had a great time and really came out of her shell on return to school. We couldn't afford the trip in the summer and wanted to go in the cooler part of the year, with our baby boy. Now they want to spoil all that!

Here's the article...

Parents should be fined £100 by schools for taking their children on holiday during term time without permission, said a junior education minister.

And the Government has told travel agents in England to urge parents to book family trips in official school holidays.

The minister, Ivan Lewis said taking term-time holidays without permission is truancy, and believes permission should be "the exception, not the rule".

Permission can be given for children to be absent for up to ten days of a school year if, for example, parents cannot take leave during the summer.

The Department for Education and Skills (DfES) has now teamed up with the Association of British Travel Agents (Abta) to remind parents of the rules.

It is up to the head to decide whether or not to grant permission for a child to be absent during term time.

Under the Anti-Social Behaviour Act that was passed by Parliament recently, heads, from early in the new year, will have the power to issue on-the-spot fines of up to £100 to parents of children who play truant.

The fines are primarily intended to bring parents who repeatedly let their children miss school to their senses as an alternative to prosecution and a possible prison sentence.

But the DfES stressed that fines could be handed out for a first-time offence in "exceptional circumstances, for example where a parent has taken their child on holiday in term time without the school's permission".

However, it is debatable whether many parents will be fined for such transgressions, as heads have neither demanded nor welcomed their power to impose them.

And the Government's warning is likely to annoy parents who believe travel firms exploit the rules by hiking the price of package deals during school holidays, especially in July and August.

Mr Lewis said: "Taking a holiday during term time can mean that children miss important school time and coursework and it will be difficult for them to catch up later on.

"Taking a child out of school for a holiday without the head's permission is unacceptable and will be treated as truancy."

ABTA chief executive Ian Reynolds said: "Our members always encourage families to book early by providing excellent early discounts and free child places for what are always busy school holiday periods.

"Booking now means getting holidays at a good price, getting maximum choice and also means that your children's education doesn't suffer."
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 10:18 am
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I totally agree Larissa.

The problem is the government put so much pressure on schools now that this is inevitable really.

Missing a couple of weeks from school makes little difference to children's education. It is mighty annoying for the teacher though when kids miss large sections of work! But I think most teachers would agree this is a step too far.
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 10:39 am
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I know, another stupid law and we all follow along like sheep.

I took my kids out of schol for 8 days this year to go on holiday. We saw plenty of kids so many parents are doing the same. The reason they are doing it is the price of the holidays double during the school holidays. Have you seen the brochures? Now that's a scam! Is the food more expensive in hotels during the school holidays? Does the price of changing the bed linen double? No, of course not.

Also, I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by thousands of screaming kids who are all on holiday at the same time.

The trouble is that if we go on holiday in term time, we are avoiding the holiday pricing scam. So by fining us £100, somebody's getting our money anyway.

This may vary from school to school anyway, but I think you'll find that most schools allow you to take upto 10 days off during term time anyway, so where's the problem.

What about the time the kids miss during 'Teacher training' days? Nothing gets said about this does it! And where has this sprung from anyway? Never had them in my day, all the teachers were already trained before coming to school, or we had a relief teacher to cover. Train in your own time, not at the expense of the kids! Parents are just expected to take time off work to look after kids on a teacher training day and loose holiday entitlement.

So if I'm entitled to 20 days holiday a year and I loose 5 days due to teacher training, not only am I getting a shorter holiday with my kids when I do take it, I'm being told when to take it!

And if I'm self employed, I'm loosing money by not working. 5 days over a year is a weeks money.

Not only that, but if we all went on holiday at the same time, the country would grind to a halt! These penny pinching idiots can't see further than their own brown noses.

It's a long, long time since we lived in a democracy, we know live in a dictatorship, like it or not. How long until we all say "No more!"

Steve
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 10:55 am
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I know the `Teacher Training days` are of vital importance, but why cant schools liase so they have the same days off.
Last year each time one of my sons had afriday off, the other son had the monday off.
I `lost` 10 days holiday last year, that is 2 weeks wages.

On another note, we took our kids to perth last year.Obviously they needed time off school. the eldest was due to take his mocks. We wrote to the headteacher explaining the situation, requesting the leave be authorised and also asking for alternative arrangements to be made for him to `sit` his exams.
This was agreed to , and we never heard a dickie bird.
I phone them about his mocks on a number of occasions (prior to our departure) and was old it was being sorted. On our return I was told it was now too late.
we,as parents try to assist the schools as much as poss, but get little back. This was the school that I refused to let my youngest attend.
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:00 am
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We are all getting a bit mixed up here aren't we?

'While (as a teacher) I disagree with truancy (I don't see a short holiday as truancy).' Why?
More time is lost through children being taken on holiday than through truancy.

'Also, I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by thousands of screaming kids who are all on holiday at the same time.'
Yours are ok though

The travel companies are the ones who charge extra during school holidays not the government.

Trying to get parents to act responsibly hardly makes the government Nazis.

I know.Let's just ignore all the rules we dislike.
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:07 am
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I'm for the high jump I guess when I write to school to confirm that my 16 year old will be absent from school for 15 school days whilst we go on our validation trip....

The teachers are all aware of the trip and the reasons, and she has done her best to ensure she knows what work she'll miss and arrange to catch up, but if I'd known that this was going to come up I'd have got the official seal of approval earlier.

I just hope the Head will turn out to be compassionate and understanding and not slap a fine on me.

I'm such a bad mum!!

Elaine
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:11 am
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Originally posted by SteveBannister

I took my kids out of schol for 8 days this year to go on holiday. We saw plenty of kids so many parents are doing the same. The reason they are doing it is the price of the holidays double during the school holidays. Have you seen the brochures? Now that's a scam! Is the food more expensive in hotels during the school holidays? Does the price of changing the bed linen double? No, of course not.

Also, I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by thousands of screaming kids who are all on holiday at the same time.

The trouble is that if we go on holiday in term time, we are avoiding the holiday pricing scam. So by fining us £100, somebody's getting our money anyway.

This may vary from school to school anyway, but I think you'll find that most schools allow you to take upto 10 days off during term time anyway, so where's the problem.

What about the time the kids miss during 'Teacher training' days? Nothing gets said about this does it! And where has this sprung from anyway? Never had them in my day, all the teachers were already trained before coming to school, or we had a relief teacher to cover. Train in your own time, not at the expense of the kids! Parents are just expected to take time off work to look after kids on a teacher training day and loose holiday entitlement.

So if I'm entitled to 20 days holiday a year and I loose 5 days due to teacher training, not only am I getting a shorter holiday with my kids when I do take it, I'm being told when to take it!

And if I'm self employed, I'm loosing money by not working. 5 days over a year is a weeks money.

Not only that, but if we all went on holiday at the same time, the country would grind to a halt! These penny pinching idiots can't see further than their own brown noses.

It's a long, long time since we lived in a democracy, we know live in a dictatorship, like it or not. How long until we all say "No more!"

Steve

Hi Steve

If we hadn't taken our daughter out of school before Easter, for our trip to Oz then we probably would have had to wait 'til Christmas, practically a year of 'shall we/shall we not go !!.

Now here comes the can of worms, we send her to a private school and they welcomed the holiday. She wrote a diary while she was there, picked up leaflets about Perth, brought seeds from the farm we stayed at and they had a whole lesson on Oz when she got back, which the other girls really enjoyed.

The teachers viewed it as an experience that she could learn from and that education isn't just about what goes on in the class room. She read tickets and airport info and loves the safety info, telling us all "Shhh this is important". She was doing a project on transport and brought back pictures of the plane etc, etc, etc........................

Everyone has different views on private/state and I won't get into a debate on that as it's individual choice and what works for your children.

I would imagine that the majority of the teachers in the state system would have the same opinion, that it's not all about what goes on in the classroom, but it's very sad that our dictatorship may never be able to accomodate the individual teachers views. Some of the best teachers I had were the ones who did it differently !! Especially the one who took us to Southport Fair to teach us about gravity, I think ?? anyway we had a great day out and did some lovely pictures !!

Happy New Year All

Jill

PS I totally agree with all the above points about it being a scam etc
 
Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:21 am
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Originally posted by Grayling

'While (as a teacher) I disagree with truancy (I don't see a short holiday as truancy).' Why?
More time is lost through children being taken on holiday than through truancy.
And more teaching time is lost during teacher training days, rehearsing for 'nativity plays' and non educational trips than children being taken on holiday.



'Also, I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by thousands of screaming kids who are all on holiday at the same time.'
Yours are ok though
Yes, I'll be honest. My kids don't run around screaming or unattended. If I wanted that, I'd sit in a playground.



The travel companies are the ones who charge extra during school holidays not the government.
I never said it was the government who charge extra during the school holidays. Read my post again.



Trying to get parents to act responsibly hardly makes the government Nazis.
I think if the government made the schools and the holiday companies work more responsibly, the parents wouldn't be so pissed off!

Nazi (plural Nazis) n

3. Nazi
bossy person: somebody who is regarded as behaving in an authoritarian or dictatorial manner

(Microsoft® Encarta® Premium Suite 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.)

The word seems to fit pretty well to me!




I know.Let's just ignore all the rules we dislike.
I know, let's work together to change the rules that are stupid before we give all our liberties and values away. After all, we are supposed to in control of who we elect, aren't we?

Last edited by SteveBannister; Dec 30th 2003 at 11:26 am.
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:29 am
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Originally posted by Grayling
We are all getting a bit mixed up here aren't we?

'While (as a teacher) I disagree with truancy (I don't see a short holiday as truancy).' Why?
More time is lost through children being taken on holiday than through truancy.

'Also, I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by thousands of screaming kids who are all on holiday at the same time.'
Yours are ok though

The travel companies are the ones who charge extra during school holidays not the government.

Trying to get parents to act responsibly hardly makes the government Nazis.

I know.Let's just ignore all the rules we dislike.

I think that Steve's point was that the less children there are around the less likelyhood that the screams reach supersonic proportions.

We had one particular holiday right at the beginning of term and there where just enough children to keep each other amused and form some good friendships.
We do avoid the 'hot spots' not just because of price but because we don't like it too crowded, it's a holiday after all and we should be free to pick when we want to go as you can not always predict that point when you really need one !
An earlier quote made by an ABTA person was just unrealistic, you can't always get time off so far in advance as you don't know a year ahead when you will need a holiday (am I repeating myself ?)

Jill
 
Old Dec 30th 2003, 11:32 am
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Originally posted by SteveBannister
And more teaching time is lost during teacher training days, rehearsing for 'nativity plays' and non educational trips than children being taken on holiday.




Yes, I'll be honest. My kids don't run around screaming or unattended. If I wanted that, I'd sit in a playground.




I never said it was the government who charge extra during the school holidays. Read my post again.




I think if the government made the schools and the holiday companies work more responsibly, the parents wouldn't be so pissed off!

Nazi (plural Nazis) n

3. Nazi
bossy person: somebody who is regarded as behaving in an authoritarian or dictatorial manner

(Microsoft® Encarta® Premium Suite 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.)

The word seems to fit pretty well to me!





I know, let's work together to change the rules that are stupid before we give all our liberties and values away. After all, we are supposed to in control of who we elect, aren't we?

Great one of your lively debates !! I knew there was something missing from my Christmas. I'll watch from the sidelines. I totally agree with you, so for once the fence lies empty.

Jill
 
Old Dec 30th 2003, 12:37 pm
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It's actually not so bad here in Australia because not all states have their school holidays at the same time. For example Queensland holidays often start a week after the NSW ones. In most cases, Queensland peak holiday dates correspond to the Queensland school holidays - so if you're going from NSW to Queensland you can often get a week at non-peak prices.

Also private schools have longer school holidays than public schools. In NSW, my kids have almost an extra two weeks in early December, an extra week at Easter and an extra week in the June/July holidays. So it's usually cheaper to go away in the week that the public schools are still operating.

We mostly go away in the two weeks before Christmas (instead of afterwards with the masses) and we never have to take the kids out of school and we never have to pay peak prices.

(Mind you we do have to pay hefty school fees!)
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 3:17 pm
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Originally posted by Warren Dix
Great one of your lively debates !! I knew there was something missing from my Christmas. I'll watch from the sidelines. I totally agree with you, so for once the fence lies empty.

Jill
Thanks Jill, It's good to be back. Got a bit boring over christmas on here, didn't it?
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Old Dec 30th 2003, 3:37 pm
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Originally posted by SteveBannister
Thanks Jill, It's good to be back. Got a bit boring over christmas on here, didn't it?
Steve,

Yes it did.
I was busy selling the rights to your new show...give Derek Akora a run for his money.
There is a reason why I occassionally tune in to 'Most Haunted' on Living.
In his past life he was a Security Guard and my Mum has been out with Him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No I'm not checking to see if I look like him.

Mum is a big believer and has had a couple of really acurate readings, but thinks 'old Derek is somewhat fake. She has a few good stories about him that are not for the forum.

So that's my claim to fame

Nice to have you back Teach
Jill :lecture:
 
Old Dec 30th 2003, 3:42 pm
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Originally posted by Warren Dix
Steve,

Yes it did.
I was busy selling the rights to your new show...give Derek Akora a run for his money.
There is a reason why I occassionally tune in to 'Most Haunted' on Living.
In his past life he was a Security Guard and my Mum has been out with Him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No I'm not checking to see if I look like him.

Mum is a big believer and has had a couple of really acurate readings, but thinks 'old Derek is somewhat fake. She has a few good stories about him that are not for the forum.

So that's my claim to fame

Nice to have you back Teach
Jill :lecture:
oops think I'm in the wrong thread folks , should be in the claire wotsit one, sorry
Jill
 
Old Dec 30th 2003, 7:14 pm
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Well, at the risk of getting jumped on by all the teachers :scared:

Would it not make sense for them to work the same hours as every one else instead of kicking the kids out at 3:15? if they finished at 4:30 like I did at school, there would be much less need for child minding facilities

Only a thought, but am ready for my kicking
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