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Is This Brisbane?

Is This Brisbane?

Old Sep 5th 2002, 4:10 am
  #1  
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Default Is This Brisbane?

For thoose who may be going there.

Brisbane's LA-style sprawl
By Adrian McGregor
September 05, 2002
ONCE touted as Australia's most liveable city, long-range town planners fear Brisbane is on the verge of merging with the Gold and Sunshine coasts into one vast, Los Angeles-type urban sprawl.

"We're at the crossroads," says town planner Gary White. "If we don't take the tough decisions now, Noosa to Coolangatta will be heading towards a huge, linear, regional metropolis within 10 years.

"Already, the eight-lane freeway from Brisbane to the Gold Coast is filling and in summer, driving from Broad beach to Surfers Paradise is horrific."

Southeast Queensland embraces the coastline from Noosa to Coolangatta, and west to Ipswich.

Mr White's warning is supported by visiting American strategic cities planner Steven Ames, who says that when massive conurbations reach build-out point, they become unliveable "Los Angeles has become that, Atlanta is rapidly heading that way," he says.

"People are addicted to their cars, they have to drive such huge distances to do anything (that) it's no longer a good lifestyle.

"I'm a little nervous of your love affair with American-style urban development. Brisbane needs to hold the line."

But Bernard Salt, a demographics specialist with business advisory firm KPMG, argues there is "planetary difference" between southeast Queensland and Los Angeles.

"Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2 million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter of the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.

"The Los Angeles urban mass extends for about 190km, about the same as Coolangatta to Maroochydore, but it's not realistic to compare their population densities.

"People in southeast Queensland might consider the Pacific Highway to be jammed, but it is still not as busy as Parramatta Road in Sydney.

"Brisbane might refer to Logan, 35km from the city, as urban sprawl, but in Sydney that just takes you beyond Parramatta."

Mr Salt says southeast Queensland's major highways included green breaks and towns at appropriate intervals on major highways.

But Mr White, president of the Queensland division of the Planning Institute of Australia, says that already green spaces are being breached in the Brisbane-to-Gold Coast corridor.

"A regional plan needs to ensure that green spaces remain distinctive green belts, and are not just seen as future land development stock."

Brisbane topped the national ratings as Australia's most liveable city in 1993, but last year the Queensland Government published the long-term regional planning strategy SEQ2021 to cope with the state's exploding southeast corner.

Under the plan, by the year 2021 year the population of the southeast corner – the nation's fastest growing region – is expected to be 3.7 million.

Editorial: The Sunset State? Bend the other one


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Old Sep 5th 2002, 4:24 am
  #2  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Originally posted by pommie bastard:
"Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2 million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter of the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.
I live in a European city of 2 million and that's very pleasant living compared to (say) London. You are still in the countryside 20 mins from the centre of the city.

What's the average/ typical commuting time for Brisbane? I was there a couple of years ago and apart from the real centre of town, things looked very easy to get around and I guess the sprawl is there because most people outside the centre like a garden.
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Old Sep 5th 2002, 11:46 am
  #3  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

"pommie bastard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > For thoose who may be going there.
    > Brisbane's LA-style sprawl By Adrian McGregor September 05, 2002 ONCE touted as
    > Australia's most liveable city, long-range town planners fear Brisbane is on the
    > verge of merging with the Gold and Sunshine coasts into one vast, Los Angeles-type
    > urban sprawl.
    > "We're at the crossroads," says town planner Gary White. "If we don't take the
    > tough decisions now, Noosa to Coolangatta will be heading towards a huge, linear,
    > regional metropolis within 10 years.

LOL, bullshit. Not in ten years. Have these people ever driven to Noosa, or the
Gold Coast for that matter?

Chris
 
Old Sep 5th 2002, 11:48 am
  #4  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

"pleasancefamily" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by pommie bastard:
    > > "Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2
    > > million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter of
    > > the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.
    > >
    > I live in a European city of 2 million and that's very pleasant living compared to
    > (say) London. You are still in the countryside 20 mins from the centre of the city.
    > What's the average/ typical commuting time for Brisbane?

Depends how far out you live and where you work. Takes me 10 mins in peak hour
traffic, 5 mins off peak. In peak it takes me 20mins to get to the CBD living 8-9km
out of town, which isn't too bad.

Chris
 
Old Sep 5th 2002, 7:04 pm
  #5  
Robert Edwards
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Travel time by train from Gold Coast (where I live) is 70 mins and by motor vehicle
a comfortable 50 mins, I agree it will take a lot longer than 10 years for the coasts
to join up with Brisbane........more likely 30 to 50 years at the current rate

"Chris" <travel[nospam][email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "pleasancefamily" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Originally posted by pommie bastard:
    > > > "Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2
    > > > million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter
    > > > of the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.
    > > >
    > >
    > > I live in a European city of 2 million and that's very pleasant living compared
    > > to (say) London. You are still in the countryside 20 mins from the centre of
    > > the city.
    > >
    > > What's the average/ typical commuting time for Brisbane?
    > Depends how far out you live and where you work. Takes me 10 mins in peak hour
    > traffic, 5 mins off peak. In peak it takes me 20mins to get to the
CBD
    > living 8-9km out of town, which isn't too bad.
    > Chris
 
Old Sep 5th 2002, 11:12 pm
  #6  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

"pommie bastard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > For thoose who may be going there.
    > Brisbane's LA-style sprawl

I visited some relatives over there a few weeks back, this is what I can say:

bollocks!

L
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 12:25 am
  #7  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Hi

It takes me abot 25 -30 mins from Logan to Brisbane CBD at peak hours (35K's) freeway
the entire distance. The traffic is significantly less than Sydney where you really
do not know whether you will actually arrive within a reasonable time at all. Also
the Freeways in Sydney are only 2 lanes wide each side (even the new ones! (The
M5!!)). I mean what sort of town planner would build a 2 (4) lane freeway to serve
the entire south west of a City with 6 million inhabitants?

Cheers GDay

PS. There is a lot of open countryside between Brisbane (Logan) and Coomera /
Southport, much of it is flood planes & rivers estuaries.


"Chris" <travel[nospam][email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "pleasancefamily" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Originally posted by pommie bastard:
    > > > "Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2
    > > > million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter
    > > > of the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.
    > > >
    > >
    > > I live in a European city of 2 million and that's very pleasant living compared
    > > to (say) London. You are still in the countryside 20 mins from the centre of
    > > the city.
    > >
    > > What's the average/ typical commuting time for Brisbane?
    > Depends how far out you live and where you work. Takes me 10 mins in peak hour
    > traffic, 5 mins off peak. In peak it takes me 20mins to get to the
CBD
    > living 8-9km out of town, which isn't too bad.
    > Chris
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 1:09 am
  #8  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Originally posted by pommie bastard:
For thoose who may be going there.

Brisbane's LA-style sprawl
By Adrian McGregor
September 05, 2002
ONCE touted as Australia's most liveable city, long-range town planners fear Brisbane is on the verge of merging with the Gold and Sunshine coasts into one vast, Los Angeles-type urban sprawl.

"We're at the crossroads," says town planner Gary White. "If we don't take the tough decisions now, Noosa to Coolangatta will be heading towards a huge, linear, regional metropolis within 10 years.

"Already, the eight-lane freeway from Brisbane to the Gold Coast is filling and in summer, driving from Broad beach to Surfers Paradise is horrific."

Southeast Queensland embraces the coastline from Noosa to Coolangatta, and west to Ipswich.

Mr White's warning is supported by visiting American strategic cities planner Steven Ames, who says that when massive conurbations reach build-out point, they become unliveable "Los Angeles has become that, Atlanta is rapidly heading that way," he says.

"People are addicted to their cars, they have to drive such huge distances to do anything (that) it's no longer a good lifestyle.

"I'm a little nervous of your love affair with American-style urban development. Brisbane needs to hold the line."

But Bernard Salt, a demographics specialist with business advisory firm KPMG, argues there is "planetary difference" between southeast Queensland and Los Angeles.

"Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts have a combined population today of 2.2 million, which is half the population of Sydney, which is still only a quarter of the population of greater Los Angeles," Mr Salt said.

"The Los Angeles urban mass extends for about 190km, about the same as Coolangatta to Maroochydore, but it's not realistic to compare their population densities.

"People in southeast Queensland might consider the Pacific Highway to be jammed, but it is still not as busy as Parramatta Road in Sydney.

"Brisbane might refer to Logan, 35km from the city, as urban sprawl, but in Sydney that just takes you beyond Parramatta."

Mr Salt says southeast Queensland's major highways included green breaks and towns at appropriate intervals on major highways.

But Mr White, president of the Queensland division of the Planning Institute of Australia, says that already green spaces are being breached in the Brisbane-to-Gold Coast corridor.

"A regional plan needs to ensure that green spaces remain distinctive green belts, and are not just seen as future land development stock."

Brisbane topped the national ratings as Australia's most liveable city in 1993, but last year the Queensland Government published the long-term regional planning strategy SEQ2021 to cope with the state's exploding southeast corner.

Under the plan, by the year 2021 year the population of the southeast corner – the nation's fastest growing region – is expected to be 3.7 million.

Editorial: The Sunset State? Bend the other one


I find the traffic around Brisbane terrible! Actually it's not so much the traffic, it's the way people drive here, stuck out in the outside lane doing 70 k in a 100/110 zone, holding people up - so your forced to overtake in the inside lane - a big no- no if your in the UK, you'd get points for that. Argh the driving here is awful! If they only learnt how to drive properly, there’d be less congestion on the roads here.
And give them a roundabout - lol, they don't know what to do with it! Terrible!

Londoner drivers should fit quite well into Brisbane driving though - same chaos and idiots.

cheers

P.S


Brisbane - 970 sq Km
Population - 1.6 million (est) (and rising) (I got 1.6, and not 2.2 million - don't know which one is correct)

Wales
Area: 20,764 sq km
Population: 2.9 million (est) (this figure is pretty stable from year to year)

Brisbane is over-crowded
Nobody can say there is more space per person in the Brisbane area than some (normal ) parts of the UK. I feel more hemmed in here than in Wales, people are living on top of one another here.

If you compare London to Brisbane - fair enough, there are probably more people living in that area than in Brisbane. But not everyone from the UK is from London

Last edited by Ceri; Sep 6th 2002 at 2:29 am.
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Old Sep 6th 2002, 2:57 am
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Originally posted by Ceri:

I find the traffic around Brisbane terrible! Actually it's not so much the traffic, it's the way people drive here, stuck out in the outside lane doing 70 k in a 100/110 zone, holding people up - so your forced to overtake in the inside lane - a big no- no if your in the UK, you'd get points for that. Argh the driving here is awful! If they only learnt how to drive properly, there’d be less congestion on the roads here.
And give them a roundabout - lol, they don't know what to do with it! Terrible!

Londoner drivers should fit quite well into Brisbane driving though - same chaos and idiots.

cheers

P.S

Hi Ceri,

Couldn't agree more with your comments about the traffic here in Brisbane. Whereabouts in Brisbane do you live? We're in Capalaba, Bayside Suburbs...


Brisbane - 970 sq Km
Population - 1.6 million (est) (and rising) (I got 1.6, and not 2.2 million - don't know which one is correct)

Wales
Area: 20,764 sq km
Population: 2.9 million (est) (this figure is pretty stable from year to year)

Brisbane is over-crowded
Nobody can say there is more space per person in the Brisbane area than some (normal ) parts of the UK. I feel more hemmed in here than in Wales, people are living on top of one another here.

If you compare London to Brisbane - fair enough, there are probably more people living in that area than in Brisbane. But not everyone from the UK is from London
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Old Sep 6th 2002, 3:15 am
  #10  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Originally posted by pommiesheila:

Pommiesheila,
Northside - Redcliffe, before that Southside, cannon hill area.

Don't worry it's one of my pet hates - the driving here

Mind you I hate London drivers too

cheers
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Old Sep 6th 2002, 7:38 am
  #11  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

"Ceri" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I find the traffic around Brisbane terrible! Actually it's not so much the traffic,
    > it's the way people drive here, stuck out in the outside lane doing 70 k in a
    > 100/110 zone,

You must be smoking something that you're not supposed to if you think 70kph in the
overtaking lane is a common occurrence. My beef is with indicators. People in
Brisbane are okay with them, but the Gold Coast... they don't even think about it.

Chris
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 7:41 am
  #12  
Chris
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

"pommiesheila" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > Brisbane - 970 sq Km Population - 1.6 million (est) (and rising) (I got 1.6, and
    > > not 2.2 million - don't know which one is correct)
    > >
    > > Wales Area: 20,764 sq km Population: 2.9 million (est) (this figure is pretty
    > > stable from year to year)
    > >
    > > Brisbane is over-crowded Nobody can say there is more space per person in the
    > > Brisbane area than some (normal ) parts of the UK. I feel more hemmed in here
    > > than in Wales, people are living on top of one another here.
    > >
    > > If you compare London to Brisbane - fair enough, there are probably more people
    > > living in that area than in Brisbane. But not everyone from the UK is from
    > > London

I never knew Wales was a city. Brisbane is a city and so a fair comparison would be
with other cities. Brisbane is not overcrowded, not by any reasonable measure. If
you want to compare Wales to something, compare it to QLD, or even SE QLD.

Chris

    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Sep 6th 2002, 8:00 am
  #13  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

So now we comparing Brisbane (a town) with Wales (a country) and the conclusion is that Brisbane is over crowded !

You should be a politician the way you manipulated statistics.

How about comparing Cardiff with Australia ?
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Old Sep 6th 2002, 8:51 am
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

Originally posted by etlniwd:
So now we comparing Brisbane (a town) with Wales (a country) and the conclusion is that Brisbane is over crowded !

You should be a politician the way you manipulated statistics.

How about comparing Cardiff with Australia ?
I'm sure even comparing Wales with Queensland would make Wales look overcrowded!!!
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Old Sep 6th 2002, 2:18 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: Is This Brisbane?

I keep seeing this- what does 'lol' mean?

Originally posted by Chris:
"pommie bastard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > For thoose who may be going there.
    > Brisbane's LA-style sprawl By Adrian McGregor September 05, 2002 ONCE touted as
    > Australia's most liveable city, long-range town planners fear Brisbane is on the
    > verge of merging with the Gold and Sunshine coasts into one vast, Los Angeles-type
    > urban sprawl.
    > "We're at the crossroads," says town planner Gary White. "If we don't take the
    > tough decisions now, Noosa to Coolangatta will be heading towards a huge, linear,
    > regional metropolis within 10 years.

LOL, bullshit. Not in ten years. Have these people ever driven to Noosa, or the
Gold Coast for that matter?

Chris
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