JayDeee

Yeah he should so it it is so easy and in the scheme of things pretty cheap something like 200 GBP.

His reply, passport and invite to the ceremony came through in a matter of weeks. the hold upo we had was because all his P/W had been sent to West sussex council and as we had already left to move to Australia they had to get it all back from West sussex and get it sent out here.

Kala

Pollyana

Congrats to Your Bloke, Kala, from my and My Bloke!!!

CPW

Not 'only' in fact - also if at least one of the parents is Irish, or is a Commonwealth citizen with the right of abode in the UK, or has indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

JAJ

Or a permanent resident.


For some reason the Home Office choose not to advertise this concession widely (the HO does not seem to have a culture of volunteering information, it's almost essential to know the answer before you ask the question).

However it's in the Home Office Nationality Instructions concerning section 3(1) registration (discretionary registration of any child as British):
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...on_of_any.html

9.9 Illegitimate children of British citizen fathers

9.9.1 Unlike mothers, fathers cannot transmit British citizenship to any illegitimate children they may have (see s.50(9) of the British Nationality Act 1981).

9.9.2 Section 1 of the Family Law Reform Act 1987 came into force on 4 April 1988 and does away with most distinctions between legitimate and illegitimate children. It does not, however, alter the citizenship position.

9.9.3 However, in accordance with the spirit of the 1987 Act, we may normally register the illegitimate minor child of a British citizen father if the criteria at a-c. (and, if appropriate, d. and e.) below are all satisfied:

a. We are satisfied about the paternity of the child; and

b. We are satisfied that the father is a British citizen; and

c. We have the consent of all those with parental responsibility (see 9.19 below); and, if appropriate

d. We are satisfied that, had the child been born to the father legitimately, the conditions for registration under either s.3(2) or s.3(5) would have been met (see Chapters 10 or 11), or we would normally have registered under section 3(1) (where the child was born abroad and the father is a British citizen by descent); and

e. There is no reason to refuse on character grounds (see 9.15.29-9.15.32 below and Annex B).


There is also a reference on the website of the British High Commission, Canberra:
http://bhc.britaus.net/passports/pas...ult.asp?id=376

It is very important for anyone in this situation that s3(1) registration MUST be applied for before the child turns 18.


Jeremy

Merlot

Great news, congrats.

Merlot

JAJ

From:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...tizenship.html
(end of paragraph 15)

"A British citizen by descent cannot be registered as a British citizen otherwise than by descent"

Also see this case:
http://www.lawreports.co.uk/civmay0.7.htm

There is a possible work-around in the law, involving moving to a British overseas territory with open immigration laws and becoming a naturalised British overseas territories citizen and using s4A of the 1981 Act to get British citizenship for overseas born children. But this is likely too awkward to be of interest to most compared to the alternative of bringing the child back to the UK to live.

Children born to British citizens in British territories are automatically British citizens just as if they were born in the UK (for those born since 21 May 2002)

Jeremy

kirsty&al

Wow. It seems bizarre that a child born to a British citizen (by decent), can become British (otherwise than by decent) while a child born to a British citizen (otherwise than by decent) whilst the parents were abroad (on say a 2 year working holiday) cannot become British (otherwise than by decent).

Regards
Alistair

JAJ

Only in exceptional cases (if born overseas). The situation I quoted (a British citizen by descent who is also a naturalised British overseas territories citizen) is very exceptional.

Another case where it can happen is s3(5) registration where the child and the family return to live in the UK for 3 years, and the child is registered there. However this route is risky as if the 12 month time limit for s3(2) registration is missed and the s3(5) requirements are never met, then the child won't become British at all unless the Home Office can be persuaded to do a discretionary registration.

Children born in the UK or a British territory to a British citizen (by descent) are generally British otherwise than by descent.

Many countries have rules preventing citizenship passing down the generations indefinitely. Children born to British citizens overseas who grow up (and have citizenship) in countries like Australia tend to identify more with their country of birth rather than the UK.

That said, the UK's rules on citizenship by descent are not flexible enough to cater to the needs of:

- British citizens resident overseas temporarily
- British citizens resident overseas in countries that do not grant local citizenship at birth (or later) and where assimilation into local culture is unlikely.

British citizens ought to think hard before having a child born overseas, unless the child is going to be eligible for a local citizenship that's worth having (eg Australian).

Being British 'by descent' won't affect their child's rights but may cause a citizenship drama for their grandchildren if they are also born overseas. While there are registration possibilities, these are all-too-often overlooked.

Jeremy

kirsty&al

That's what I was talking about. It seems crazy to me.

A.

JAJ

Since about 1915 British law has been based on transmission by only the first generation born abroad, and there are only limited concessions for citizens 'by descent' who spend many years in the UK before returning overseas.

When the law was rewritten in 1948, and again in 1981, this principle was left intact.

You could try writing to your MP post election, however few MPs know enough about nationality law to have much chance of making a good argument to the Home Office.

Jeremy

Tonyonthemove

Sorry, a bit of a twist on all this. I am currently applying for my PR after marrying an Australian and moving to WA. Am I right in thinking that she cannot apply for British Residency unless we move back and live in the UK. Is there anything she can get to make travelling between the two countries any easier?

Congratulations Kala and bloke. Who will he be going for now in the Ashes?

CPW

The New Zealand approach to this seems very sensible, and neat and tidy, whereby a citizen by descent can register as a citizen otherwise than by descent if they fulful certain residence criteria. The Australian system is similar, but perhaps less clearcut in practice, since it's not a question of registering as such but of proving that one has lived in Australia for at least 2 years before the birth of the child overseas (as I understand it). I wonder why the UK doesn't consider something along the NZ (or Australian) lines.

JAJ

The problem with the NZ approach is that it relies on citizens 'by descent' knowing about the naturalisation facility - most don't.

The Australian approach is pretty sensible. The s3(2) registration facility in the UK does offer something along the same lines, but more restrictive.

Incidentally the UK has plenty of scope for a more flexible approach without going through the hassle of changing the British Nationality Act because s3(1) allows any child to be registered as British (the same section that's now used to register children of unmarried British fathers). One option would be for the Home Office to register as British any child under 18 born overseas as a British citizen provided:

- both parents are British (whether 'by descent' or not); or
- the British 'by descent' parent has lived in the UK for 3 (or 5) years

A child registered as British under s3(1) is British 'by descent' if one or both its parents is British at the time of birth - otherwise it's British 'otherwise than by descent'.

Jeremy

JAJ

If you just mean holidays in the UK, isn't her Australian passport acceptable on its own?

If you want her to have British citizenship, she needs to naturalise after living in the UK for 3 years.



Jeremy

CPW

Indeed, that's a problem with lots of citizen/nationality laws and regulations, particularly (but not only) if there is a time limit (either a time limit for the actual law or regulation, as happens sometimes, or else a time limit relating to the person's age or some other personal factor).

Under the NZ system, does the person have to be fulfilling the residence criteria at the time of application, or is it sufficient to have fulfilled them at some time in the past?