Beoz

You say it like someone alive today, watched the British settlers arrive, steal there land, their kids, give them small pox, some booze, and said screw you, we're getting rich from it. They are just hearing history.

The other way to look at it is ask the question about any indigenous people have profited from white settlement. If white settlers hadn't arrive what would Cathy Freeman be doing today. Running around the outback doing corrobaree, living a nomadic lifestyle, doing rock painting for a kick. What would Cathy want to be doing with her life is more to the point.

Get over it, help where you can, and get on with it.

man_called_Horse

I tend to agree, 40,000 years of just living hand to mouth and tribal wars. Life expectancy was probably 1/3 -1/2 it is today, there's no proof to say that those Indigenous were any more happier before European settlement than today. There would still be intertribal wars, justice by spear, domestic violence, child abuse, starvation etc.

Education, science, medicine and progression.... it's self awareness, it's the things that set humans aside from animals.

JOE2010

Sorry but this is a rather ignorant post. My papa was recruited (forcefully) into what used to be the Kings African Riffles, fought alongside the allies in WW2 in Germany. He died a few years ago and until his death he was very bitter about the British and their settlement in Kenya. Irrespective of the benefits of colonisation – it would be very naïve to wish away that part of history and the atrocities committed. It is well captured in Caroline Elkins book Britain's Gulag: The Brutal End of Empire in Kenya. This was happening almost 50 years ago and I do know people who have been victims today, so this is not something that happened generations ago. It is only in June last year the British accepted a settlement after successful court action in the UK High Court by the victims of torture – but they accepted settlement without admitting guilt.

The biggest and the most dangerous import of the British settlement (and European colonialism for that matter) was the divide and rule along tribal lines – a genesis of today’s problems in Africa. To their credit, the British did a better job in setting up systems and structures in their colonies than the French – who almost everything they touched in much of West Africa ended up as a basket case, even to this day they are still fighting.

Should I feel bad about the British today? It is unhelpful since our generation has been for the most part beneficiaries. I am however interested in the history of our people and what happened. Also, for most of Africa, after the end of colonialism it was just replacing one bunch of brutal kleptocratic rulers with another set of brutal and corrupt African leaders. That is where I disagree with the tendency to blame all our problems on colonialism whilst it happened 50 years ago and good leadership would have at least taken some countries forward. I do find it rather curious when the British tell everyone to own up to their past (the Germany and Japanese obvious here) while not acknowledging, similar evil acts of their empire or looking at their past with rose tinted spectacles.

Beoz

That's great and very interesting, I like reading about history, but how does any of this make my post naive?

BadgeIsBack

It is relevant - but where do you draw the line?
1000 years/ 200 years / 50 years? I am guilty of oversimplification perhaps trying to find that line...

Swerv-o

The Egyptians used slave labour to build the pyramids - they have undoubtedly profited from the tourism for thousands of years. Should they make reparations now though?


S

BadgeIsBack

Perhaps if you have a living (or recently deceased relative) that is smarting - that's enough.

What would Judge Judy or Oprah say?

Beoz

....and what is reparations? Money, an apology??? what is it and how does it make up for the actions of ancestors?

If governments admit guilt, then they leave themselves open to years of law suits with the ultimate penalty being money. Our money.

The Australian government could give all the money in the world it wants to the Indigenous people. What is that going to serve?

JOE2010

This. Is. Naive. I do know people who were Mau Mau in the 1950's. I have also met a couple of ex British Army officers in Perth, a majority who went to my former high school in Nairobi.

ozzieeagle

There's quite a likelihood that they never you know

.... Or try building one today

Beoz

Selective editing - nice work.

Anyhow ...... what do you want for these crimes? The perpetrators visit The Hague, money, an apology, what?

JOE2010

I thought that sentence summarised your thoughts - apologies if I misunderstood you.

I don't think reparation is a solution, where do you begin? It was two ways - some of the infrastructure developed during colonialism is still in use. Mugabe tried with kicking out White farmers but of what use is land to a peasant who doesn't have capital? Too complex but what am saying at least we should not write off this history. Money is also not the solution - it would probably help if the West stopped giving Africa Aid - never helped and never will.

brits1

When we lived in Perth we lived in a nice area that was very multi cultural and that suited us just fine, our neighbours were from all over the globe and all were employed. Australia is changing quickly and to me that's all good as it takes away the stereotype of person who can sometimes make this world a bad place. Good luck with the job hunting if you have good qualifications and your needed in Aus then go for it.

LeeChong

Ive been talking about colonisation and slavery generally, not Australia specifically. I've never suggested reparations - just a little acknowledgement or sympathy for those our country (UK) disadvantaged might be nice. I'm not sure why that is too big an ask.

My fundamental point is that it's not for the beneficiaries of past oppression to decide when it's time to move on. It's the victims (who arguably are still disadvantaged by the exploits of the British Empire) who decide that. When in your lifetime would you be happy with a burglar or oppressor telling you it's time to move on? I'm pretty certain the answer for most of us is never.

As to the point that this is hundreds of years ago - no it wasn't. Britain didn't finish it's decolonisation of Africa till the 60's - so many living members on this forum will be able to recall Britain's Imperial past. And in Australia the child removal policy continued till the very late 60's - I didn't see that feature in the earlier lists of benefits being proudly paraded as being gifted to indigenous peoples by Britain.

I can accept the role that my ancestors and country played in disadvantaging others around the globe, and also the benefits (I accept there were benefits) - I don't understand why others can't too.

Beoz

I don't tthink anyone has had an issue accepting it. Well not in this thread anyway.