Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
#1
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Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
I have an offer to move to Sydney with a $200k salary. I have 2 young kids, the eldest being 2.5 so schooling is starting to become an important factor in where we live. I'm trying to work out how comfortably we could live on that salary based on where we're at now - earning £100k in London.
Currently we're in Beckenham, although not living entirely comfortably as we're a single income family and life is expensive here - rent about £2500 a month + bills and general day to day family living costs.
I understand rent is also extortionate in Sydney so am questioning whether it's worth the move. In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
I've researched a few areas, Chatswood, Epping (sadly nothing anywhere near the beach), but I don't actually know much about any of them and am open to suggestions and recommendations. Any advice is appreciated.
Currently we're in Beckenham, although not living entirely comfortably as we're a single income family and life is expensive here - rent about £2500 a month + bills and general day to day family living costs.
I understand rent is also extortionate in Sydney so am questioning whether it's worth the move. In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
I've researched a few areas, Chatswood, Epping (sadly nothing anywhere near the beach), but I don't actually know much about any of them and am open to suggestions and recommendations. Any advice is appreciated.
#2
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Things you should establish first are does the $200k include super, a lot of Australian employers will quote salary including super so what you bring home could be quite a bit less than you expected. Also what visa would you be on? As there are school fees if you are on a temporary visa, although that is a few years down the line.
I think you would be a touch worse off in Sydney financially, you would really want that to be more like $220-225k excluding super to feel like your £100k in London. Perhaps not a big enough shortfall for you to rule it out though, depends how much you want the life experience.
On your London salary, I calculate you have about £5,500 left over after tax is deducted and rent paid. In Australia things tend to work in weekly terms and you would have take home pay of $2,500 per week and you would probably need about $1,000 per week of that for a four bedroomed house in a decent area, maybe a bit less if you are lucky. So yes that definitely sounds like you would be worse off.
I have no idea what is equivalent to Beckenham as I have never been there. But decent schools are in decent areas and presumably you don't want to be too far out. I am most familiar with the suburbs on Northern Beaches or the Northern Shore and that is where my $1,000 estimate comes from, but of course there are cheaper areas if you compromise on other things.
I think you would be a touch worse off in Sydney financially, you would really want that to be more like $220-225k excluding super to feel like your £100k in London. Perhaps not a big enough shortfall for you to rule it out though, depends how much you want the life experience.
On your London salary, I calculate you have about £5,500 left over after tax is deducted and rent paid. In Australia things tend to work in weekly terms and you would have take home pay of $2,500 per week and you would probably need about $1,000 per week of that for a four bedroomed house in a decent area, maybe a bit less if you are lucky. So yes that definitely sounds like you would be worse off.
I have no idea what is equivalent to Beckenham as I have never been there. But decent schools are in decent areas and presumably you don't want to be too far out. I am most familiar with the suburbs on Northern Beaches or the Northern Shore and that is where my $1,000 estimate comes from, but of course there are cheaper areas if you compromise on other things.
Last edited by Bermudashorts; May 4th 2016 at 1:11 pm.
#3
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
To be honest I'm unsure about what the visa would be - all I know is the employer would sort it out. Same with the super - isn't that the same as NI? I expect that would be deducted from the salary as well, much the same as NI. We're still in the very early stages of negotiation with regards to the move so thanks for pointing out things that are worth investigating further.
My rent plus bills in London makes up about 50% of income, it appears the same would be true in Sydney, assuming I can rent a place for around $1k.
However if I would need to pay for private schooling that would put a serious dent in my finances. That would mean an income of approx. $300k would be required, which I don't know if that is realistically achievable - certainly a £150k salary here is very very hard to get.
I'm unable to compromise on schooling and commuting time into the CBD can't be any more than an hour door to door. If it's possible to get that and be within easy shooting distance of a beach for $1k a week rent that would be great - it would certainly make any moving decision easier.
My rent plus bills in London makes up about 50% of income, it appears the same would be true in Sydney, assuming I can rent a place for around $1k.
However if I would need to pay for private schooling that would put a serious dent in my finances. That would mean an income of approx. $300k would be required, which I don't know if that is realistically achievable - certainly a £150k salary here is very very hard to get.
I'm unable to compromise on schooling and commuting time into the CBD can't be any more than an hour door to door. If it's possible to get that and be within easy shooting distance of a beach for $1k a week rent that would be great - it would certainly make any moving decision easier.
#4
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
To be honest I'm unsure about what the visa would be - all I know is the employer would sort it out. Same with the super - isn't that the same as NI? I expect that would be deducted from the salary as well, much the same as NI. We're still in the very early stages of negotiation with regards to the move so thanks for pointing out things that are worth investigating further.
My rent plus bills in London makes up about 50% of income, it appears the same would be true in Sydney, assuming I can rent a place for around $1k.
However if I would need to pay for private schooling that would put a serious dent in my finances. That would mean an income of approx. $300k would be required, which I don't know if that is realistically achievable - certainly a £150k salary here is very very hard to get.
I'm unable to compromise on schooling and commuting time into the CBD can't be any more than an hour door to door. If it's possible to get that and be within easy shooting distance of a beach for $1k a week rent that would be great - it would certainly make any moving decision easier.
My rent plus bills in London makes up about 50% of income, it appears the same would be true in Sydney, assuming I can rent a place for around $1k.
However if I would need to pay for private schooling that would put a serious dent in my finances. That would mean an income of approx. $300k would be required, which I don't know if that is realistically achievable - certainly a £150k salary here is very very hard to get.
I'm unable to compromise on schooling and commuting time into the CBD can't be any more than an hour door to door. If it's possible to get that and be within easy shooting distance of a beach for $1k a week rent that would be great - it would certainly make any moving decision easier.
If your $200k does not include super then you would take home $132k annually. If it does include super you only take home $123k annually.
I did not say you need to pay for private schooling, what I was saying that on a temporary visa in NSW you cannot access state schools for free, you need to pay $5k or so per child per year so something else to factor in, although perhaps you will have applied for a permanent visa by then.
#5
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
I have an offer to move to Sydney with a $200k salary. I have 2 young kids, the eldest being 2.5 so schooling is starting to become an important factor in where we live. I'm trying to work out how comfortably we could live on that salary based on where we're at now - earning £100k in London.
Currently we're in Beckenham, although not living entirely comfortably as we're a single income family and life is expensive here - rent about £2500 a month + bills and general day to day family living costs.
I understand rent is also extortionate in Sydney so am questioning whether it's worth the move. In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
I've researched a few areas, Chatswood, Epping (sadly nothing anywhere near the beach), but I don't actually know much about any of them and am open to suggestions and recommendations. Any advice is appreciated.
Currently we're in Beckenham, although not living entirely comfortably as we're a single income family and life is expensive here - rent about £2500 a month + bills and general day to day family living costs.
I understand rent is also extortionate in Sydney so am questioning whether it's worth the move. In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
I've researched a few areas, Chatswood, Epping (sadly nothing anywhere near the beach), but I don't actually know much about any of them and am open to suggestions and recommendations. Any advice is appreciated.
You are in the great position to be able to earn £100K and that is more than many people earn combined (even in London). Just my opinion, but wouldn't there be easier ways to save more cash in the UK?
#6
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
The cost is either in rent/house price and/or with the very high train costs. To live within the tiny catchment area of a good school and to have a reasonable commute is very expensive. I'm competing with many families with 2 high earners so not really a fair fight :-)
It would be possible to move further out than Beckenham, with Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells having very good schools (and they're still using the grammar system) - but they're also incredibly expensive for property and have a longer and very expensive train ride than Beckenham.
Schools is an area I can't compromise on - I'm from a comprehensive school background and have fought my way into professional services and can tell you that less than 5% of people working in the Tier 1 organisations are from comprehensive school backgrounds...our social mobility isn't all that mobile...but that's a discussion for another thread :-)
Sydney is also incredibly expensive city to live, mainly driven by extortionate property prices, hence I'm doing the math as to whether I would gain in living standards with all things considered.
#7
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
In Beckenham maybe, but there are plenty of cheaper places within commuting distance of London. Out of interest I just looked at Rightmove and at Beckenham's prices! We live in Berkshire and paid half what we'd have to pay there for a similar sized house. Crack on with Oz if that's where you'd love to be, but £100k would buy a very nice life here so if more disposable income is your aim, IMO that's achievable in the UK.
#8
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
We are commutable to London, OH does it every day and train is 35 minutes although do need to drive to station first. Rental value of our property in Herts is £1,500 rather than £2500 so it is definitely possible to live more cheaply and work in London .... but I am not sure that was the question.
You mention doing the maths. If you are purely going to look at this in financial terms, well I would say with some confidence that £100k in London will go further than $200k in Sydney.
But there are non financial factors as well. Have you always wanted to move to Australia or work overseas? Are you looking for an adventure / new lie experience? We initially took a hit in earnings when we moved London to Sydney, but decided it was worth it for the experience.
You mention doing the maths. If you are purely going to look at this in financial terms, well I would say with some confidence that £100k in London will go further than $200k in Sydney.
But there are non financial factors as well. Have you always wanted to move to Australia or work overseas? Are you looking for an adventure / new lie experience? We initially took a hit in earnings when we moved London to Sydney, but decided it was worth it for the experience.
#9
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
I know Beckenham. I used to play against Beckenham Cricket Club every year. Nice ground. They used to hold the Queens Tennis tournament at the courts there.
Rent in London used to +5 years ago put a far bigger dent in my take home than Sydney does now. I got about 2.1 on my salary change over but the wife got about 2.5. On the sums I did at the time 2.1 was going to be more profitable in Sydney than the salary I was on in London..
As for comparable places check out places around Oatley or Janalli. Quite suburban like Beckenham, probably a half hour train to the city and 15-20 mins from the beach. Lane Cove and in that direction are nice too.
Your train ticket in Sydney will be far cheaper than London. Check out Sydney Trains on google for routes and pricing.
Not sure if this still stands as I know London rents have gone through the roof and Sydney rents haven't moved so much, but a few years back I used to say you can do it on 2-2.5 of your London salary. With 2 cutting even. No profit to be made financially. You are at the low end but if its for the experience, go for it.
Rent in London used to +5 years ago put a far bigger dent in my take home than Sydney does now. I got about 2.1 on my salary change over but the wife got about 2.5. On the sums I did at the time 2.1 was going to be more profitable in Sydney than the salary I was on in London..
As for comparable places check out places around Oatley or Janalli. Quite suburban like Beckenham, probably a half hour train to the city and 15-20 mins from the beach. Lane Cove and in that direction are nice too.
Your train ticket in Sydney will be far cheaper than London. Check out Sydney Trains on google for routes and pricing.
Not sure if this still stands as I know London rents have gone through the roof and Sydney rents haven't moved so much, but a few years back I used to say you can do it on 2-2.5 of your London salary. With 2 cutting even. No profit to be made financially. You are at the low end but if its for the experience, go for it.
Last edited by Beoz; May 4th 2016 at 8:14 pm.
#10
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Lets say you are spending $1000 per on rent. Your weekly take home after tax, medicare levy and super will be about $2500.
Something like this in an area not too dissimilar in distance to Beckenham.
13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-oatley-418062702
That's 40% of your take home pay.
In London you are spending 45% of your pay on rent. £2500 on rent of your £5500 after tax.
A single fair from say Oatley to the city is 30 mins and $5. Beckenham is about £5. Your monthly commute is bound to be about half the price. Saving you a bit more.
Sounds to me financially a winner.
Something like this in an area not too dissimilar in distance to Beckenham.
13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-oatley-418062702
That's 40% of your take home pay.
In London you are spending 45% of your pay on rent. £2500 on rent of your £5500 after tax.
A single fair from say Oatley to the city is 30 mins and $5. Beckenham is about £5. Your monthly commute is bound to be about half the price. Saving you a bit more.
Sounds to me financially a winner.
#11
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Lets say you are spending $1000 per on rent. Your weekly take home after tax, medicare levy and super will be about $2500.
Something like this in an area not too dissimilar in distance to Beckenham.
13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 - House for Rent #418062702 - realestate.com.au
That's 40% of your take home pay.
In London you are spending 45% of your pay on rent. £2500 on rent of your £5500 after tax.
A single fair from say Oatley to the city is 30 mins and $5. Beckenham is about £5. Your monthly commute is bound to be about half the price. Saving you a bit more.
Sounds to me financially a winner.
Something like this in an area not too dissimilar in distance to Beckenham.
13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 13 Park Avenue Oatley NSW 2223 - House for Rent #418062702 - realestate.com.au
That's 40% of your take home pay.
In London you are spending 45% of your pay on rent. £2500 on rent of your £5500 after tax.
A single fair from say Oatley to the city is 30 mins and $5. Beckenham is about £5. Your monthly commute is bound to be about half the price. Saving you a bit more.
Sounds to me financially a winner.
But in that case I would question taking home £5500 but choosing to rent somewhere for £2500. It is out of proportion and unnecessary, even sticking to the old tried and tested no more than a third of income on rent would provide a very generous rental budget within commuter belt.
So I don't think I would look at it this way, it is apples and pears, I mean OP could insist he wants a four bed in Mosman which would be $2k easily and therefore take up 80% of income. I think I would just go back to the usual rule of thumb that you would want gross salary of something like 2.2x to feel about the same financially.
#12
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Yes you are right, more % of income on rent in London on those figures. I did some sums wrong earlier on the thread. Forgot about tax.
But in that case I would question taking home £5500 but choosing to rent somewhere for £2500. It is out of proportion and unnecessary, even sticking to the old tried and tested no more than a third of income on rent would provide a very generous rental budget within commuter belt.
So I don't think I would look at it this way, it is apples and pears, I mean OP could insist he wants a four bed in Mosman which would be $2k easily and therefore take up 80% of income. I think I would just go back to the usual rule of thumb that you would want gross salary of something like 2.2x to feel about the same financially.
But in that case I would question taking home £5500 but choosing to rent somewhere for £2500. It is out of proportion and unnecessary, even sticking to the old tried and tested no more than a third of income on rent would provide a very generous rental budget within commuter belt.
So I don't think I would look at it this way, it is apples and pears, I mean OP could insist he wants a four bed in Mosman which would be $2k easily and therefore take up 80% of income. I think I would just go back to the usual rule of thumb that you would want gross salary of something like 2.2x to feel about the same financially.
The poster also said and asked:
In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
No mention of Mosman. Just give me something that's a 4 bedroom house within 30-40 mins (Oatley is just under 30 mins) commute. Its all in the title of the thread. As for schools don't ask me. There's probably a website for that.
I'm thinking the 2.2 rule might have changed for renters. Sydney rents have only gone up a fraction in most areas in the past 5 years where London has soared.
As we can see here, the poster can go on 2x and be ahead when it comes to the biggest expense - housing.
Oh and whilst I'm there, an annual ticket from Beckenham to London Bridge comes in at £1,328.00. The Oatley to Town Hall comes in at $1,480.00.
Last edited by Beoz; May 5th 2016 at 4:58 am.
#13
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
In Beckenham maybe, but there are plenty of cheaper places within commuting distance of London. Out of interest I just looked at Rightmove and at Beckenham's prices! We live in Berkshire and paid half what we'd have to pay there for a similar sized house. Crack on with Oz if that's where you'd love to be, but £100k would buy a very nice life here so if more disposable income is your aim, IMO that's achievable in the UK.
#14
Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Why? The poster already said why they don't live in Sevenoaks or Tunbridge Wells. A longer more expensive train ride. It's not really your place to question. It's their choice where they to choose to live and within their means. Knowing both Beckenham and Tunbridge Wells and Sevenoaks, there is a difference. One is London, the others a country towns.
The poster also said and asked:
In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
No mention of Mosman. Just give me something that's a 4 bedroom house within 30-40 mins (Oatley is just under 30 mins) commute. Its all in the title of the thread. As for schools don't ask me. There's probably a website for that.
I'm thinking the 2.2 rule might have changed for renters. Sydney rents have only gone up a fraction in most areas in the past 5 years where London has soared.
As we can see here, the poster can go on 2x and be ahead when it comes to the biggest expense - housing.
Oh and whilst I'm there, an annual ticket from Beckenham to London Bridge comes in at £1,328.00. The Oatley to Town Hall comes in at $1,480.00.
The poster also said and asked:
In Beckenham I can rent a decent 4 bed house, have decent transport links to get me into central London in 30-40 mins and have good state schools around. However that doesn't leave much money spare at the end of the month as we're a single income family.
Are there equivalent areas in Sydney that would allow renting a 4 bed house, good schools and have a good public transport links? Would we have money left over to come back to the UK every year?
No mention of Mosman. Just give me something that's a 4 bedroom house within 30-40 mins (Oatley is just under 30 mins) commute. Its all in the title of the thread. As for schools don't ask me. There's probably a website for that.
I'm thinking the 2.2 rule might have changed for renters. Sydney rents have only gone up a fraction in most areas in the past 5 years where London has soared.
As we can see here, the poster can go on 2x and be ahead when it comes to the biggest expense - housing.
Oh and whilst I'm there, an annual ticket from Beckenham to London Bridge comes in at £1,328.00. The Oatley to Town Hall comes in at $1,480.00.
My point was that comparing after rent income which includes an average rent in Sydney with a well above average rent in London, is perhaps not a sensible comparison. Tinker with either rental value and the picture can change very easily and dramatically. They could easily pay less in London, they could easily pay more in Sydney. What won't change is the £100k in London or the $200k in Sydney. Hence, I believe comparing finances before rent might make more sense considering that COL is pretty similar between the two cities overall.
OP didn't mention Oatley either. Why can you mention Oatley but I cannot mention Mosman, it also fits the bill of good schools and shortish commute.
Last edited by Bermudashorts; May 5th 2016 at 6:31 am.
#15
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Re: Beckenham (London) equivalent in Sydney
Yes it is up to the OP how much they want to pay on rent, I have said that "I" being "me" would question whether I would pay out so much of my income in rent. But in any case that was not my point.
My point was that comparing after rent income which includes an average rent in Sydney with a well above average rent in London, is perhaps not a sensible comparison. Tinker with either rental value and the picture can change very easily and dramatically. They could easily pay less in London, they could easily pay more in Sydney. What won't change is the £100k in London or the $200k in Sydney. Hence, I believe comparing finances before rent might make more sense considering that COL is pretty similar between the two cities overall.
OP didn't mention Oatley either. Why can you mention Oatley but I cannot mention Mosman, it also fits the bill of good schools and shortish commute.
My point was that comparing after rent income which includes an average rent in Sydney with a well above average rent in London, is perhaps not a sensible comparison. Tinker with either rental value and the picture can change very easily and dramatically. They could easily pay less in London, they could easily pay more in Sydney. What won't change is the £100k in London or the $200k in Sydney. Hence, I believe comparing finances before rent might make more sense considering that COL is pretty similar between the two cities overall.
OP didn't mention Oatley either. Why can you mention Oatley but I cannot mention Mosman, it also fits the bill of good schools and shortish commute.