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BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

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Old Feb 5th 2018, 9:59 am
  #46  
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Well down swotting up on geographic locations. Indeed Australia is bigger than WA.


Now Melbourne had a thirty per cent population growth over twelve years because of.....you weren't very in stating reasons. Sydney at twenty per cent we know because it is basically unaffordable...
Plenty find Sydney affordable. That's why so many live there. Your wallet houses moths. That's your problem.

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Australia requires the biggest population growth in the developed world because.......your response is inaudible.
And you should look to Sydney, Melbourne and to a degree Brisbane to answer that question. Participation and productivity. Migration has increased living standards by adding to the total taxable income without side effects to employment numbers. Of course this requires the right type of migrant and the government seem to have a good handle on that now after a naturally expected shaky start.

Perth needs a new or variety of major industries. Your one trick pony over there is clouding your assessment.
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Old Feb 5th 2018, 10:34 pm
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Plenty find Sydney affordable. That's why so many live there. Your wallet houses moths. That's your problem.



And you should look to Sydney, Melbourne and to a degree Brisbane to answer that question. Participation and productivity. Migration has increased living standards by adding to the total taxable income without side effects to employment numbers. Of course this requires the right type of migrant and the government seem to have a good handle on that now after a naturally expected shaky start.

Perth needs a new or variety of major industries. Your one trick pony over there is clouding your assessment.
Well no most find Sydney very over priced when it comes to housing. That is simply because it is well over inflated. Obviously people need to live there for employment but just wait for interest rates to raise.


I trust you are not still of the mind that they will not rise due to the housing fiasco and that somehow this can be prevented?


Moving on to Perth. Yes we can find accord here. Something I have said for many, many years, Perth is too much a one track pony. But the economy Out West is not the topic of discussion.


Why should Australia be running a record immigration program when there is no need? That is the fundamental question, to which looks very in danger of being hijacked as a 'cause popular' by both Right and Left.
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Old Feb 5th 2018, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post

Why should Australia be running a record immigration program when there is no need? That is the fundamental question, to which looks very in danger of being hijacked as a 'cause popular' by both Right and Left.
There is a need. We are busy in the east and can't find talent. See employment numbers over here. Training does not provide practical skills and experience takes years to acquire. The only solution is to seek it from abroad. Talent from abroad gives the locals experience and knowledge. If we had unemployment issues I would be sympathetic, but we don't, not east anyway. Your gripe is a west one. Keep it local.
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Old Feb 5th 2018, 11:06 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

There is no need but I accept rent seekers, real estate industry, finance, business, some 'concerned' home owners(probably with a substantial mortgage, but not solely) applaud the continued decline in living standards for self serving gain. It is not a WA thing as migration here has dropped right off. Could possibly do with a few more in fact.
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Old Feb 5th 2018, 11:31 pm
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Of shore borrowings and government incentives into infrastructure creating the boom in the most part of course. Not bad in itself, being a supporter of infrastructure as it benefits everyone, but it should be remembered it is a government incentive. Hardly the stuff sustainable economic upturns are made off.


Latest NSW population figures showed 98,570 overseas migrants arriving and nearly 15,000 residents of NSW, mostly Sydney moving.


Housing costs have been cited as a major impairment to the retention of essential workers.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 12:43 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Of shore borrowings and government incentives into infrastructure creating the boom in the most part of course. Not bad in itself, being a supporter of infrastructure as it benefits everyone, but it should be remembered it is a government incentive. Hardly the stuff sustainable economic upturns are made off.


Latest NSW population figures showed 98,570 overseas migrants arriving and nearly 15,000 residents of NSW, mostly Sydney moving.


Housing costs have been cited as a major impairment to the retention of essential workers.
That's the big smoke for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...l-figures-show

If people are moving from cities and regional areas receive the overspill, the skills, the diversity, that's a good thing for regional areas, and the pressure needed to set governments to task for building infrastructure and facilities that enable regional areas to link to and function like cities. All the things that increase our living standards.

Here's an article for you.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/pro...es-price-rise/

Nothing wrong with living outside the city, on the coast if its commutable. The coast is where people want to be in Australia.

On the flipside nothing wrong with living in high density areas. After all, you said it yourself, high density = vibrancy.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 2:28 am
  #52  
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
That's the big smoke for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...l-figures-show

If people are moving from cities and regional areas receive the overspill, the skills, the diversity, that's a good thing for regional areas, and the pressure needed to set governments to task for building infrastructure and facilities that enable regional areas to link to and function like cities. All the things that increase our living standards.

Here's an article for you.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/pro...es-price-rise/

Nothing wrong with living outside the city, on the coast if its commutable. The coast is where people want to be in Australia.

On the flipside nothing wrong with living in high density areas. After all, you said it yourself, high density = vibrancy.
Your not getting it. While vibrancy is great in itself and an ingredient Australia lacks in many cases, just pumping the country full of migrants for the sake of vibrancy will not end well.


I'm not sure what I need to get through to you that Australia does not require a record number of migrants.


I have quoted the Dept of Employment stating that there is not a skill shortage in Australia as well as Global recruitment company Indeed.


Just to bring it home, and help you out further in understanding, the Director of Advocacy at the Committee for Sydney , James Hulme , agreed a looming brain drain was a concern with numbers leaving and inability to recruit/keep to which he listed housing unaffordability and poor public transport as well as poor night life in comparison to Melbourne.


So one gathers although numbers are high entering, it is not of the calibre preferred who are enticed elsewhere.


Too few are moving to regional areas for obvious reasons. Some three quarters moving only to Melbourne or Sydney, which is not sustainable.

Last edited by the troubadour; Feb 6th 2018 at 2:30 am.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 3:32 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Your not getting it. While vibrancy is great in itself and an ingredient Australia lacks in many cases, just pumping the country full of migrants for the sake of vibrancy will not end well.


I'm not sure what I need to get through to you that Australia does not require a record number of migrants.


I have quoted the Dept of Employment stating that there is not a skill shortage in Australia as well as Global recruitment company Indeed.


Just to bring it home, and help you out further in understanding, the Director of Advocacy at the Committee for Sydney , James Hulme , agreed a looming brain drain was a concern with numbers leaving and inability to recruit/keep to which he listed housing unaffordability and poor public transport as well as poor night life in comparison to Melbourne.


So one gathers although numbers are high entering, it is not of the calibre preferred who are enticed elsewhere.


Too few are moving to regional areas for obvious reasons. Some three quarters moving only to Melbourne or Sydney, which is not sustainable.
James Hulme and night life shouldn't be put in the same sentence.



You are getting yourself all worked up about snippets you read in the press from 4000 km away.

What you are not getting is that cities, especially the best cities, attract more than they lose. Sydney is not exception there. I gave you the London article. Sydney follows a similar path. People come, People go.

The key worker is the main person in question about the article you refer, but do not have the decency to post.

Again this happens in all big cities. How do you keep a fireman, a school teacher, a policeman, close to their employment which may be all over the city?

Its not cheap to house a Woollahra Public School teacher in Woollahra, yet its one of the most desirable public schools to attend - go figure.

Affordable housing requirements are certainly not as great as London, but they are moving in that direction. Lucky Sydney has good public transport. Bit like but certainly not as good as London.

There's a silver lining for you though, and all the key workers. The Sydney housing market is about to crash according to Troubadour. Woollahra should be housing all of Sydney's teachers before long. That's how it works right?
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 7:14 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

You refuse to answer the question Why Record Immigration? At a time when there is no job shortages, or few. Why not return to normal immigration numbers a little under half as present?


Very happy to see the fifth month in a row of house price declines in Sydney. That is true, Hardly amounts to a crash though. You do use colourful terms. The government will I expect, go all out, to prevent a crash, regardless of the cost. External events though more likely to catch up with them.


Oh well come a correction of sizable proportions and I expect you'll high tail it back to Essex , saying it was all a bit of a laugh and didn't really believe a word of it.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 7:39 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
You refuse to answer the question Why Record Immigration? At a time when there is no job shortages, or few. Why not return to normal immigration numbers a little under half as present?


Very happy to see the fifth month in a row of house price declines in Sydney. That is true, Hardly amounts to a crash though. You do use colourful terms. The government will I expect, go all out, to prevent a crash, regardless of the cost. External events though more likely to catch up with them.


Oh well come a correction of sizable proportions and I expect you'll high tail it back to Essex , saying it was all a bit of a laugh and didn't really believe a word of it.
No Essex Hills in Sydney. However there is a Surry Hills. Someone forgot the "e".

No price drops there. No price drops where people want to live.

https://m.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au/top-suburbs/nsw-2010-surry-hills.aspx

Don't let the outer suburbs cloud your investigations.

Why record immigration? The east coast needs it. If it didn't we would see a rise in unemployment, however its declining and has been for some time now.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 8:46 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

No it doesn't need record immigration. As much as it may enable you to sleep at night having a hefty mortgage, that life I'm afraid.


None or few job shortages in most areas in Australia. Dept of Employment says as much. Think you know better?
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 9:06 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
No it doesn't need record immigration. As much as it may enable you to sleep at night having a hefty mortgage, that life I'm afraid.
What would you regard a hefty mortgage? Percentage of household net income?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
None or few job shortages in most areas in Australia. Dept of Employment says as much. Think you know better?
You are right. No job shortages. Plenty of skill shortages though.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 9:20 am
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
What would you regard a hefty mortgage? Percentage of household net income?



You are right. No job shortages. Plenty of skill shortages though.


Something that gives you sleepless nights worrying about the downturn. Living beyond means in false belief things will always be better.....


I'll tell you why you are wrong. Stagnant wage growth infers there is no shortage of skills. Otherwise basic economics would state inflationary wage growth. A considerable time since that was the case. Un/under employed Australian residents numbering 1.2 million further support the argument.


The running of record immigration is nothing more than suppressing wage growth and conditions and maintaining a flawed housing Ponzi scheme. As well as ensuring GDP figures remain in the positive. Immigration is but another form of business.
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Old Feb 6th 2018, 9:10 pm
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Something that gives you sleepless nights worrying about the downturn. Living beyond means in false belief things will always be better.....
So regardless of where ever I was, Sydney, London, or Perth, a mortgage is a mortgage, rent is rent, if a downturn causes job losses, we are all screwed. Hardly a reason not to gamble on an investment like property. In the event of a downturn I would choose Sydney or London over Perth any day - more jobs, more variety of jobs, bigger economies. My lifestyle is better than ever. I had a set number of criteria when purchasing a house. Firstly the repayments needed to be less than rent. Lifestyle is important. And in the event of moving city, I wanted to be positively geared. Of course this can change but that's the joys of investing long term. Secondly I didn't want to be part of a strata. I wanted to be control of when I choose to invest in the property. All those things ticked and I sleep like a log. How are your sleep patterns?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I'll tell you why you are wrong. Stagnant wage growth infers there is no shortage of skills. Otherwise basic economics would state inflationary wage growth. A considerable time since that was the case. Un/under employed Australian residents numbering 1.2 million further support the argument.


The running of record immigration is nothing more than suppressing wage growth and conditions and maintaining a flawed housing Ponzi scheme. As well as ensuring GDP figures remain in the positive. Immigration is but another form of business.
Unfortunately economics 101 doesn't apply to low wage growth in this case. Look it up for yourself. Low wage growth is a global topic and doesn't equate to high unemployment. Does it??????? There are many theories for it but lets take yours - immigration. Does Japan have high immigration? No but it has flat wage growth because of globalization and the ability to work easily over multiple countries. Will Trumps theory on keeping it within work? I doubt it. Companies will just use foreigners away from the US.

So in Australia's case what is better? Using foreigners in their own countries, paying tax there or bring them in so they are contributing to the Australian economy? The latter for sure and given unemployment and inflation is so low, where's the issue? Unlikely wages will rise as is evident in other countries with lower immigration.

Here's a tip though. If you are really after lining your own pocket with a better wage, perhaps the union can help you. Gone of the days of stop work protests etc, petition your union to work with your company to provide incentive and productivity based bonuses.

There's no reason why companies wouldn't go for this. Its all about making money at the end of the day.
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Old Feb 7th 2018, 10:36 pm
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Default Re: BCA Call For More Workers Doesn't Add Up

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
So regardless of where ever I was, Sydney, London, or Perth, a mortgage is a mortgage, rent is rent, if a downturn causes job losses, we are all screwed. Hardly a reason not to gamble on an investment like property. In the event of a downturn I would choose Sydney or London over Perth any day - more jobs, more variety of jobs, bigger economies. My lifestyle is better than ever. I had a set number of criteria when purchasing a house. Firstly the repayments needed to be less than rent. Lifestyle is important. And in the event of moving city, I wanted to be positively geared. Of course this can change but that's the joys of investing long term. Secondly I didn't want to be part of a strata. I wanted to be control of when I choose to invest in the property. All those things ticked and I sleep like a log. How are your sleep patterns?



Unfortunately economics 101 doesn't apply to low wage growth in this case. Look it up for yourself. Low wage growth is a global topic and doesn't equate to high unemployment. Does it??????? There are many theories for it but lets take yours - immigration. Does Japan have high immigration? No but it has flat wage growth because of globalization and the ability to work easily over multiple countries. Will Trumps theory on keeping it within work? I doubt it. Companies will just use foreigners away from the US.

So in Australia's case what is better? Using foreigners in their own countries, paying tax there or bring them in so they are contributing to the Australian economy? The latter for sure and given unemployment and inflation is so low, where's the issue? Unlikely wages will rise as is evident in other countries with lower immigration.

Here's a tip though. If you are really after lining your own pocket with a better wage, perhaps the union can help you. Gone of the days of stop work protests etc, petition your union to work with your company to provide incentive and productivity based bonuses.

There's no reason why companies wouldn't go for this. Its all about making money at the end of the day.


The thread is not about your mortgage beyond expressing your fears of a melt down, which is being largely prevented from massive population growth by means of migration into Australia's principle two cities.
So I won't comment on that side of things, although certainly have a lot of thoughts on the matter and the way the banks have handled it. The recklessness is not quite unbelievable though, as the tax payer will be forced once again to pick up the tab in time of crisis.


Contributing to the economy through record migration is hardly helping it. In times of stagnant wage growth, record high house inflation, strain on infrastructure like hospitals, schools, roads, social services it is declining living standards not increasing them for ordinary people.
I have already pointed out ever more residents already in Australia are on part time if not unemployed, wanting more hours and struggling in Australia's expensive cities.
It won't take much to upset the cart.


While business is obviously about making profit, it will not be tolerated that that will be further enhanced through attacks on the living standards by business ever after greater profit, a lot to ship offshore to share holders while people here go further backwards.


There is no earthly need to run record immigration levels in a time of such uncertainty for the Australian economy. That is simply fact.
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