BBC blast for 'white' Australia
Mar 21st 2004, 8:54 am
#46
Dutch expat/Aus citizen
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: South East, Perth (was Holland)
Posts: 5,789
http://www.atsic.gov.au/News_Room/As...Fact/index.asp
Essential reading for all (with thanks to Meglania)
I have only read parts yet...
Don't forget the foreword etc ( I started somewhere, but should take the time to read it ALL)
Essential reading for all (with thanks to Meglania)
I have only read parts yet...
Don't forget the foreword etc ( I started somewhere, but should take the time to read it ALL)
Mar 21st 2004, 9:20 am
#47
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Originally posted by Simone82
Yeah, but what!!! :scared:
Firstly, I need to know MUCH more about it all. I know NOTHING, even though I do seem to know more than others....
Yeah, but what!!! :scared:
Firstly, I need to know MUCH more about it all. I know NOTHING, even though I do seem to know more than others....
Here are 3 books, all very good, written by Australians (no 'whinging Poms'
). - John Pilger can be a bit rabid, but his articles make one think about the important issues:
The New Rulers of the World
A Secret Country
- Philip Knightly covers some of the issues in his general book about the history of Oz:
Australia: Biography of a Nation
- United Nations criticism of Oz and its racist indigenous land rights' legislation.
- the ATSIC stuff
Even if you end-up believing that aborigines are complaining about nothing (very unlikely, but who knows!) at least your view will be derived from a much fuller source.
And then spread the word to anybody who'll listen.
Mar 21st 2004, 9:23 am
#48
Dutch expat/Aus citizen
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: South East, Perth (was Holland)
Posts: 5,789
Originally posted by MikeStanton
Do what we all have to do, go find out more about these issues
Here are 3 books, all very good, written by Australians (no 'whinging Poms' ).
- John Pilger can be a bit rabid, but his articles make one think about the important issues:
The New Rulers of the World
A Secret Country
- Philip Knightly covers some of the issues in his general book about the history of Oz:
Australia: Biography of a Nation
- United Nations criticism of Oz and its racist indigenous land rights' legislation.
- the ATSIC stuff
Even if you end-up believing that aborigines are complaining about nothing (very unlikely, but who knows!) at least your view will be derived from a much fuller source.
And then spread the word to anybody who'll listen.
Do what we all have to do, go find out more about these issues
Here are 3 books, all very good, written by Australians (no 'whinging Poms'
). - John Pilger can be a bit rabid, but his articles make one think about the important issues:
The New Rulers of the World
A Secret Country
- Philip Knightly covers some of the issues in his general book about the history of Oz:
Australia: Biography of a Nation
- United Nations criticism of Oz and its racist indigenous land rights' legislation.
- the ATSIC stuff
Even if you end-up believing that aborigines are complaining about nothing (very unlikely, but who knows!) at least your view will be derived from a much fuller source.
And then spread the word to anybody who'll listen.
I've now started properly on the ATSIC stuff, and in the past have read (auto)biographies on the lost generation, like MY Place by Sally Morgan.
Still have a LONG way to go.......
Mar 21st 2004, 10:22 am
#49
You sip .... I glug !!!
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Over the hill!
Posts: 2,790
If anybody wants to know more about aborigine issues and get more involved, here are a few good places to start
http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discr...acts/index.htm
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/welcome.htm
http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVL-Aboriginal.html
You can join Action for Aboriginal Rights
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/join.htm
You can join a Reconciliation Study Circle by calling the appropriate number
- NSW and ACT 1800 060 266
- VIC 1800 060 265
- WA 1800 060 269
- SA 1800 060 270
- NT 1800 060 268
- TAS 1800 659 363
- QLD 1800 060 267
You can get involved in various Reconciliation projects
http://www.reconciliationaustralia.o...sprojects.html
If anybody wants anymore info, let me know.
M
http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discr...acts/index.htm
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/welcome.htm
http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVL-Aboriginal.html
You can join Action for Aboriginal Rights
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/join.htm
You can join a Reconciliation Study Circle by calling the appropriate number
- NSW and ACT 1800 060 266
- VIC 1800 060 265
- WA 1800 060 269
- SA 1800 060 270
- NT 1800 060 268
- TAS 1800 659 363
- QLD 1800 060 267
You can get involved in various Reconciliation projects
http://www.reconciliationaustralia.o...sprojects.html
If anybody wants anymore info, let me know.
M
Mar 21st 2004, 10:37 am
#50
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 138
Some good posts and thanks for all the references.
I have a copy of Germaine Greer's "Whitefella Jump Up"(Quarterly Essay 2003).Haven't read it all but her view is that WE( white Australians) are the Aboriginal problem and not the reverse and that how if we get sense of what it means to be Aboriginal it could save the "soul" of Australia.
Anyone have any views about how Australia can move forward.I personally think the issues are being shoved under the carpet and are being left to the government and that racism towards Aboriginies runs deep in the average white Australian psyche.
On a contraversial note I believe the church has done a lot of harm and does nothing now except continue the myth that Aboriginies need to be Europeanised.
I have a copy of Germaine Greer's "Whitefella Jump Up"(Quarterly Essay 2003).Haven't read it all but her view is that WE( white Australians) are the Aboriginal problem and not the reverse and that how if we get sense of what it means to be Aboriginal it could save the "soul" of Australia.
Anyone have any views about how Australia can move forward.I personally think the issues are being shoved under the carpet and are being left to the government and that racism towards Aboriginies runs deep in the average white Australian psyche.
On a contraversial note I believe the church has done a lot of harm and does nothing now except continue the myth that Aboriginies need to be Europeanised.
Mar 21st 2004, 10:43 am
#51
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
It does not have to be all grand schemes. Just a "G'day" and a nod or a smile is a good start.
Mar 21st 2004, 10:48 am
#52
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by Megalania
It does not have to be all grand schemes. Just a "G'day" and a nod or a smile is a good start.
It does not have to be all grand schemes. Just a "G'day" and a nod or a smile is a good start.
Mar 21st 2004, 10:52 am
#53
You sip .... I glug !!!
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Over the hill!
Posts: 2,790
Originally posted by Megalania
It does not have to be all grand schemes. Just a "G'day" and a nod or a smile is a good start.
It does not have to be all grand schemes. Just a "G'day" and a nod or a smile is a good start.
Mar 21st 2004, 11:33 am
#54
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Originally posted by Simone82
Yeah, but what!!! :scared:
Firstly, I need to know MUCH more about it all. I know NOTHING, even though I do seem to know more than others....
I know that aboriginals were 'given' houses and stuff, but they're nomads originally, so they don't even want them(this was in a aboriginal community on north west WA) They used the houses a bit, but not much... On the electric or gas cookers/stoves/ovens they made fires....
Children at school? Yes, but if there was something happening in another community, they'd be off with there families for days/weeks (nomads)
These were people that only lived in the 'bush' 20 years ago.(now about 30 years, cos it was 1991)
Btw, I heard today from my parents (they'd just watched Rabbit Proof fence) that the people of Nullagine had lots of family in Jigalong, the place in the book/film, so they went there often, and vice versa.
What I keep thinking: WHY, was my father, with only experience as a builder, and 10 months as a builder instructor in an aboriginal community, given the job as coordinator for ATSIC of an aboriginal community!!
Well, I guess they didn't have any other choice, and my dad was willing, is a good person, and had a tiny bit of experience...
But think about it, wouldn't it have been much better for an aboriginal themself to do it ( I remember that later on there was a more 'western' aboriginal lady who became recreation officer, and her husband was also 'western'. I think they came from Perth, but not sure what his job was, hmmm, another question for my parents!
Of course(!?) my dad and family didn't survive long in Nullagine. We didn't fit in, not with the aboriginals(totally different culture) and not with the 'white' Australians of the town, who were racist(not all), and as my dad was working for ATSIC....., and us kids played with the aboriginals all the time....
AND, of course, we were still Dutch, which made us different again...
There were big problems with alcohol of course too... since then, my dad is practically a tee totaller, he's seen the damage that can be done
All I can say now, is that I think the government should apologise, and something at least has to be sorted out about the landrights. But I don't really know how everything is arranged now, so I have a lot of reading up to do
When I get to Perth, I'll see if there's other ways I can do something, though at the moment I wouldn't know what, except voting for the right people(?), keep reading, learning, speaking out...
Yeah, but what!!! :scared:
Firstly, I need to know MUCH more about it all. I know NOTHING, even though I do seem to know more than others....
I know that aboriginals were 'given' houses and stuff, but they're nomads originally, so they don't even want them(this was in a aboriginal community on north west WA) They used the houses a bit, but not much... On the electric or gas cookers/stoves/ovens they made fires....
Children at school? Yes, but if there was something happening in another community, they'd be off with there families for days/weeks (nomads)
These were people that only lived in the 'bush' 20 years ago.(now about 30 years, cos it was 1991)
Btw, I heard today from my parents (they'd just watched Rabbit Proof fence) that the people of Nullagine had lots of family in Jigalong, the place in the book/film, so they went there often, and vice versa.
What I keep thinking: WHY, was my father, with only experience as a builder, and 10 months as a builder instructor in an aboriginal community, given the job as coordinator for ATSIC of an aboriginal community!!
Well, I guess they didn't have any other choice, and my dad was willing, is a good person, and had a tiny bit of experience...
But think about it, wouldn't it have been much better for an aboriginal themself to do it ( I remember that later on there was a more 'western' aboriginal lady who became recreation officer, and her husband was also 'western'. I think they came from Perth, but not sure what his job was, hmmm, another question for my parents!
Of course(!?) my dad and family didn't survive long in Nullagine. We didn't fit in, not with the aboriginals(totally different culture) and not with the 'white' Australians of the town, who were racist(not all), and as my dad was working for ATSIC....., and us kids played with the aboriginals all the time....
AND, of course, we were still Dutch, which made us different again...
There were big problems with alcohol of course too... since then, my dad is practically a tee totaller, he's seen the damage that can be done
All I can say now, is that I think the government should apologise, and something at least has to be sorted out about the landrights. But I don't really know how everything is arranged now, so I have a lot of reading up to do
When I get to Perth, I'll see if there's other ways I can do something, though at the moment I wouldn't know what, except voting for the right people(?), keep reading, learning, speaking out...
Good on you Simone.
Sadly, for every one like you arriving there's 10 WBBs who don't give a flying *****.
Mar 21st 2004, 11:55 am
#55
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 138
Saying "G'day" isn't really going to help narrow the gap between European's and Aboriginal's life expectancy or stop petrol sniffing.
Mar 21st 2004, 12:07 pm
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Depends
Posts: 4,041
Has anyone seen the Film..... Rabbit Proof Fence about 3 Aborginal girls, it really made my blood boil, but quite an interesting film
Mar 21st 2004, 1:48 pm
#57
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
Originally posted by mary1
Saying "G'day" isn't really going to help narrow the gap between European's and Aboriginal's life expectancy or stop petrol sniffing.
Saying "G'day" isn't really going to help narrow the gap between European's and Aboriginal's life expectancy or stop petrol sniffing.
Mar 21st 2004, 3:20 pm
#58
Karma Comedian
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,506
Originally posted by VanishingDragon
The problem with the Aborigines is that they have made no effort whatsoever to integrate into Australian society.
The problem with the Aborigines is that they have made no effort whatsoever to integrate into Australian society.
Mar 21st 2004, 4:03 pm
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Originally posted by mary1
Some good posts and thanks for all the references.
I have a copy of Germaine Greer's "Whitefella Jump Up"(Quarterly Essay 2003).Haven't read it all but her view is that WE( white Australians) are the Aboriginal problem and not the reverse and that how if we get sense of what it means to be Aboriginal it could save the "soul" of Australia.
Anyone have any views about how Australia can move forward.I personally think the issues are being shoved under the carpet and are being left to the government and that racism towards Aboriginies runs deep in the average white Australian psyche.
On a contraversial note I believe the church has done a lot of harm and does nothing now except continue the myth that Aboriginies need to be Europeanised.
Some good posts and thanks for all the references.
I have a copy of Germaine Greer's "Whitefella Jump Up"(Quarterly Essay 2003).Haven't read it all but her view is that WE( white Australians) are the Aboriginal problem and not the reverse and that how if we get sense of what it means to be Aboriginal it could save the "soul" of Australia.
Anyone have any views about how Australia can move forward.I personally think the issues are being shoved under the carpet and are being left to the government and that racism towards Aboriginies runs deep in the average white Australian psyche.
On a contraversial note I believe the church has done a lot of harm and does nothing now except continue the myth that Aboriginies need to be Europeanised.
There has to be political will to move things forward. Unfortunately, people seem more interested in how interest rates will affect their mortgage repayments, than the aboriginal issues.
I would like to think that international embarassment would spur the Oz government to do something. However, the Oz government's handling of asylum seekers shows they don't care that much about the views of the wider world.
In Melbourne and Sydney (in total ~40% of Oz population) you rarely see an aborigine. And when you do, they are invariably drunk or otherwise "off their faces".
So, it's out of sight, out of mind - and many people don't want to look at the reasons why aborigines are this way - it's easier (especially on the white conscience) to write them off as lazy, drunken bludgers.
I agree with you that aboriginal racism runs deep in the average white Aussie psyche (similar to southern States of USA?). You only have to look at this forum for some indications of that.
Again ditto on the harm done by the church - it's not considered particularly controversial any more. In the church's defence, they probably believed they were doing the right thing at the time - it in no way excuses it, but helps to explain it.
Mar 21st 2004, 4:05 pm
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Originally posted by Mercedes
Has anyone seen the Film..... Rabbit Proof Fence about 3 Aborginal girls, it really made my blood boil, but quite an interesting film
Has anyone seen the Film..... Rabbit Proof Fence about 3 Aborginal girls, it really made my blood boil, but quite an interesting film
