ABCDiamond

News headlines today quote: Australian households are in record levels of debt, and for the first time have surpassed American levels.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...27/2781111.htm

However, these figures include both Home Loans and Credit Card debt.

In Australia, people are still buying houses, consequently the total house finance is rising.
In the USA, people are walking away from old home loan debts, causing the total outstanding to have been reducing.

Looking at the changes in Credit card figures, from government sources, over the last 15 years:

Australia Credit card debt

• 1994 Total of: $5,267,000,000 = $293.40, per person
• 2004 Total of: $25,716,000,000 = $1,269.79 per person
• 2008 Total of: $40,029,000,000 = $1,860.28 per person. (2.81% of average Annual wage)

634% growth since 1994 (based on per population figure)

UK Credit card debt

• 1994 Total of: £9,453,209,396 = £163.38 per person
• 2004 Total of: £60,951,509,687 = £1,018.66 per person
• 2008 Total of: £65,580,040,237 = £1,068.37 per person. (3.94% of average Annual wage)

654% growth since 1994 (based on per population figure)


Using an average of A$2 to the £ this works out at about:

• UK: A$2,136 credit card debt per man, woman and child in UK
• Aus: A$1,860 credit card debt per man, woman and child in Australia

BadgeIsBack

You do realise, based on these figures that people will claim that as these fgures show a couple of hundreds bucks in favour of Australia - read nothing - that you will be acused of massaging figures or only reporting bad things about the UK - even though you 'set out' to paint Australia in a bad way - subject title.

(As I have said before, if you HAVE massaged your figures then you are a **** and deserve to be criticised. Stand by..)

Grayling

He wouldn't have put the post up unless it was in Australia's favour.

...and I never said that he massaged figures....simply that he is always very selective about which ones he uses.

BadgeIsBack

Didn't think of you and what you had said - I made no attempt to differentiate - to me massaging is selective, here(!)

...and I don't think we will ever really know...unless he comes clean. In any case, most of his stats portray similarity between the two countries..is this his in-joke? I suspect he has a bit of a chuckle - even notices that and felt compelled to run down Australia - he will never win, of course.

We (the forum) are the winners if it provides stats we might not otherwise find ourselves - or gives food for thought/discussion.

swigski

ABC seems to have a thing for Credit card stats. He likes to think that as Australians are now reducing their credit card debt levels by a miniscule amount, that the economy is in great shape and a recession could never happen here. Credit card debt only accounts for 11% of the total debt. The rest of the debt mountain is mainly mortgages.

Australian families now owe more than their counterparts in the recession-stricken US - previously regarded as the credit capital of the world. American household debt stands at $US44,000 per person, or just under $50,000.

Stats can be massaged and manipulated to prove most points either way as ABC has many times displayed.

ABCDiamond

Of course

I actually think the newspapers are massaging their 'article titles' for effect.
Figures taken direct from:
http://www.rba.gov.au/payments-syste...istics/rps.xls
and
http://www.bba.org.uk/bba/jsp/polopo...?d=470&a=16488

I've had a quiet Christmas, need some livening up

ABCDiamond

100%

ABCDiamond

Of course, there are plenty of others who do the opposite, so a bit of balance never goes amiss.

Grayling

So you are admitting to being biased and not providing objective data then?

ABCDiamond

Hmmm, what did I quote earlier...

Australian card debt
1994 $293.40 per person
2004 $1,269.79 per person (an increase from 1994)
2008 $1,860.28 per person (an increase from 2004)

Hmm...

ABCDiamond

Define objective ?

The true figures about UK and the true figures about Australia... is it wrong to state these ?

Should only the negatives about Australia be quoted on this site, to suit your personal feelings about Australia ? After all, we all know what you feel about the country.

pomtastic

Aussies were $7 - 9K better off in 2009 because of low interest rates, low petrol prices and government handouts. That’s a round 10% of the average wage. Rates are now on the up, petrol could go up if the Iran war escalates (highly probable in 2010) and food, electricity, etc are all on the rise. Households are going to get financially squeezed in 2010, local businesses are going to suffer because of less cash to splash around – unemployment will follow.

Swigski is right – 2010 is going to hurt many, many people.

WTF, 39% of household income is used to pay debt! I thought 30% was the ‘stress’ level, is 39% to new 30%? So scary, that people have racked up so much debt, now over 100% of Aussie GDP – it can only end in tears.

ABCDiamond

If the Americans had the same Mortgage system as Australia and Britain it would be a very different story.

How many $billions of debt have the American Banks just wiped away, as the mortgage holders just handed back their keys, and in doing so absolved themselves from the debt.

Whilst at the same time Australians have been buying more property, therefore increasing the total mortgage debts.

An interesting figure for mortgage debt is actually the net debt. ie: Total Mortgage less the value of the asset that the debt is attached to.

Example: if you have a $500k mortgage, then you are classed as having a $500k debt. But your house may be worth $700k, so in reality you are $200k in the black.

But for selling Newspapers, it is better to say: You are in the red to the tune of $500k

pomtastic

[QUOTE

In Australia, people are still buying houses, consequently the total house finance is rising.
[/QUOTE]

People are buying houses because of the 'free money' handed out, it's brought forward 2 years worth of 1st home buyers. Lets see how the market stands on it's own 2 feet next year when grants have disappeared. Same with new car sales in Aus this year, 50% tax reduction bumped up car sales. Again, lets see how the car industry survives without the props.

ABCDiamond

And the figures to prove this are ?

What if the percentage of First Home buyers changes to the same figures as 1988-1990.

First Home Buyers in Australia
1988-90 30.7% were First Home Buyers Source PDF File
2007-09 26.3% were First Home Buyers Source – 5609.0 – Housing Finance, Australia