The Koalas

Hi all
Please note this is not a UK v Australia post I just want some thing explaining.


Have read many posts on Australian schools and notice a lot of negatives about them in as much as they are behind the UK. Can someone who has experience of Australian schools please explain where they fall behind. I have children and when I go back to the OZ will be taking then for the firt time so have no idea about the schools or system over there. I just need some clear ideas about why the schools are not very good. I am still going anyway and it would not influence my desicion just curious as to why people comment so much on the schools over there.

Why are Australian schools behind?.

What do they not teach if anything?.

What can I do a as mother to help in out of school tutoring to help my children?.

claireg3

Hello to "the clan"

If it puts your mind at rest at all the school that our eldest daughter goes to (she is 6) are running a scheme at the moment for parents telling them about the methods that are currently being used in the classroom and new methods thet are to be adopted. So what you might say - the thing is that they are all methods that have been developed in Australia.
When Katie starts school in Australia she will be dropping back a year because of the age they start in WA.

Probably hasn't reaaly answered your question but thought I would share anyway.

Claire

OzTennis

I'm afraid that by nature it is a UK vs Australia post because it is based a contentious premise that 'Australian schools are behind'. I have experience of both secondary systems and IMHO there is no such thing as 'Australian schools' and 'UK schools'. You will find good ones, bad ones, high achieving ones, low achieving ones, those with huge discipline problems, those with minor discipline problems, those with bullying rife etc - in both countries.

There is also a difference between states because this is the way education is organised there. What may be true in WA or NSW may not be true in SA, Victoria or whatever.

One thing I will say though is that standards of everything have fallen in both systems. I mean in attainment, behaviour, and any way you care to measure it. For example, the UK government has a target that 50% of children will eventually enter tertiary education (currently around 25% I think). How else can this be achieved than by 'lowering the bar' so more youngsters get there? More youngsters enter tertiary education in Oz as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against more people enjoying (?) tertiary education I am just observing the only way in which the objective can be achieved. 93% pass rate in 'A' levels with well over 20% getting A's, I ask you!

I'll leave it to others to make their claims. Just take them with a pinch of the proverbial. Do a bit of research yourself. There are State Government websites and many schools have websites these days. If you are thinking of enrolling children in a particular school have a look at their website, email them with some questions etc. I appreciate that you might have genuine practical concerns because of what you might see in this forum.

A final thought, I have colleagues in schools in Glasgow and Edinburgh (I've met them at conferences) where their sole goal is to get through the day without being assaulted, have a riot in their class, the 'ugly' parent barge into their room or whatever. If 'Australian schools' (whatever that means) are behind this admittedly extreme case then heaven help us. Incidentally said schools may have over 200 pupils enter first year secondary (Year 7 in Oz) and between them these pupils will gain between 20 and 50 Higher passes in Year 11. I have no doubt that they have their equivalent in London, western Sydney and so on.

OzTennis

MrsDagboy

My opinion is that they arent worse at all. Or behind. Thats the opinion of some people on here who like to run down Australia. Australia ranks ahead of the UK in the international education league table. It also ranks ahead of England in the
TIMSS - Trends in International Maths & Science Study results as well. Make of those results what you may, but I dont think that they were made up.

I think that perhaps some of the confusion about children being behind if they go back to the UK may have something to do with the childs age & what things they get taught in different classes both here & in the UK. Remember that a child starts school here in Qld as they are turning 6 ie they turn 6 in their 1st year of school. Compared that to the UK where I think they start much earlier.

Anyway, thats my opinion. There are plenty of excellent schools here in Australia. Just as there are some not so good ones. Exactly the same as in the UK.

The Koalas

Thank you for your replies,

One thing I am looking forward to for my children is the sport and outdoor activities. My friends in OZ all have children around the same age and their children go swimming and do gymnastics etc. Here they are thrown in the playground at 11.15 until I collect them at 11.30. They can only go swimming if i take them to the nearest one around 20 miles away.
Do you know what is available for children before they start school at 6. Do they do nursery schools in OZ and if so do I have to pay for it? Here I send them to nursery which is free, do they do the same over there. Also does anyone know the Web site I can look at to find all the info I need.

Nicholls Clan.

jandjuk

this may be a good time to mention another thread which has been going on in the returning to the UK forum: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...hreadid=187909

I think it was Clare who summed it up best on that thread.

To generalise (based on what others have said), it seems:

UK education has a big focus on tests, grades, and exams.

Aus/NZ has a broader definition of education, with competence not being rigorously tested until the students are older.

Threrefore, many students fall 'behind' in basic subjects because their education downunder has had less focus on the 'three R' type subjects.

One other thing I have noticed, that amongst younger people, it is much more acceptable to be an 'intellectual' in the UK. There is no equivalent of Oxbridge downunder, so there is no (positive) peer pressure to be extremely brainy! Likewise this is reflected in the media - little comparable to BBC2, and few opportunities to see European culture, history, and languages in context.

Teamwork, sports, innovation, and confidence are rated more highly instead. (Oh and I mustn't forget the IMO!)

OzTennis

Jon and Mrs D

Insightful observations as usual. I was chuckling to myself when I read Jon's bit about more acceptable to be 'intellectual' in the UK. I recalled Bundy's story how she said in northern NSW to someone that 'she had been to Cambridge'. The guy replied, yeah, I've been to Armidale (or Tamworth) or whatever

I would just add that 'swottiness' (I'm not sure how to spell this word I've made up) is getting more of a communicable disease in my school. 'You swot' is the common reaction to anyone who asks questions, asks for extra work etc. No doubt happening in Oz as well (but there it could be 'swatting' flies ).

On the question of nursery schools which was raised - yes, they have them. The school down the road from our place in Melbourne (admittedly a private school) provides for a couple of hours before and after school. In this case they charge but I can't speak for state schools and other private schools.

Let's face it so many couples both work these days that they do need someone to look after the kids before and after school so I'm sure provision is widespread there. This is not in any way intended as a criticism of working mothers it is just an inevitable fact of modern life.

OzTennis

The Koalas

Having read the replies it is all a bit clearer now. I would like them to continue nursery school not because I work and need them to go, but I think they need the stimulation a class environment provides. But I will do my research into the school system and find out all about it.

Loopy

Just to add my opinion, my eight year old's school in the UK, which was by no means one of the best, was a lot more academic than the one he is at now. However, the education he is receiving is a lot more rounded, he does so much. He's learning a language (wouldn't have done so until age 11 in the area we were in), he does far more sports, cookery, all sorts of arts & crafts and is always going on excursions and having incursions. Some people will think this is worse, others better. So far I'm quite happy and so is he!

Loopy

OzTennis

Well put - it was Mrs D's point as well about the different approach - broader base vs 3 r's.

I'm still chuckling (sorry can't resist this, sad case that I am) at the kids having incursions (raid into a territory with hostile intentions)

School trips to NZ probably (Jon) or Vics into NSW etc

OzTennis - with sincere apologies to Loopy

Loopy

That's ok! Think how I felt when first week at school he came home & said "Mum I'm having an incursion". What do I do thought I, call a doctor?? Asked him what he meant & he didn't know, just knew he was having one! It's just a normal turn of phrase now, but not one I'd come across before. So, to those who may not know (although I'm sure you all do, being clever cloggses) it's the opposite of an excursion, instead someone or something comes into school to see the children. Next week its fire & rescue service, hmmm, perhaps I should go in & help that day!!!

Loopy

migrantoz

nicholls clan,

I think that you have possibly misunderstood what all the posts mean when they say that Australian schools are 'behind'. I think its more a case of 'Australian children start and finish school at a slightly older age than UK children', hence being 'behind'.
It doesn't mean that they are academicaly behind.

downunderpom

Hi Nichols Clan

I work on one of Australia's top universities. Around half of our students are from overseas, and they are the 'creme de la creme' of their countries top achievers. Why would they come here if we didn't have world class education and research facilities?

I think the proof of Oz's standard of education is in the money these students and their parents are willing to front up. As they say, 'put your money where your mouth is'.

Personally, I was educated in Oz, and my 7 Qld 'Junior' subjects equated to 11 UK 'O' Level subjects, several with distinctions.

Don't worry about your kids getting a good education in Oz - they will, if they want to learn.

tinaj

A good point Downunder.

Do you have a lot more kids getting in to the top Uni's that have attended private schools than state or is it fairly balanced?

downunderpom

Hi Tina

Sorry - I don't have those stats to hand. I work in the IT side of it, rather than admissions or lecturing.

No doubt a trawl of Uni websites or Dept of Ed. website would have them somewhere!