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Australian Republic before King George VII

Australian Republic before King George VII

Old Jul 29th 2013, 10:54 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Recent demonstrations include the dismissal of 1975 when they removed a sitting PM from power
As much as I dislike the monarchy, this had nothing to do with them. The Queen made it clear at the time she would not intervene. The Governor-General, John Kerr, was the one who dismissed the Whitlam government of the time. It was an Australian issue, dealt with by Australians in Australia - an issue caused by dirty politics from the Liberal opposition. There is nothing to suggest that a President with similar powers would not have done the same as the Governor-General.
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Old Jul 29th 2013, 11:06 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
As much as I dislike the monarchy, this had nothing to do with them. The Queen made it clear at the time she would not intervene. The Governor-General, John Kerr, was the one who dismissed the Whitlam government of the time. It was an Australian issue, dealt with by Australians in Australia - an issue caused by dirty politics from the Liberal opposition. There is nothing to suggest that a President with similar powers would not have done the same as the Governor-General.
Latest research suggests the Windsors had more to do with it than previously understood. Jenny Hocking's account of it in her Whitlam biography has it that the Windsors were clearly on Kerr's side and their backing of him was instrumental in what he did.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 12:23 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Latest research suggests the Windsors had more to do with it than previously understood. Jenny Hocking's account of it in her Whitlam biography has it that the Windsors were clearly on Kerr's side and their backing of him was instrumental in what he did.
Whether or not that is true, the decision to dismiss the government was in the hands of the Governor-General. He made the decision to do that.

Far too much focus can be put onto the monarchy in this, which I feel had relatively little, if anything, to do with the dismissal. Dirty politics by the Liberal opposition under Fraser was the reason for the blocking of supply in parliament, and that is what brought on the "crisis".

Last edited by roaringmouse; Jul 30th 2013 at 12:26 am.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 1:29 am
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Whether or not that is true, the decision to dismiss the government was in the hands of the Governor-General. He made the decision to do that.

Far too much focus can be put onto the monarchy in this, which I feel had relatively little, if anything, to do with the dismissal. Dirty politics by the Liberal opposition under Fraser was the reason for the blocking of supply in parliament, and that is what brought on the "crisis".
The point is he didn't feel he could do it without the Queen's backing, and he had a close relationship with Charles through who this was communicated. the way it works with the Queen is a "nod's as good as a wink". It's always been this way.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 3:18 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
At the moment, a private family of Germans control Australia.
And as long as everyone believes that, then a republic will happen.

Many do actually believe it, and are quite surprised when they learn the real truth

In each of the states, the monarch is represented by a governor, appointed directly by the Queen on the advice of each of her respective AUSTRALIAN state governments.

The Governer Generals are Australian citizens.

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
The Windsor family are also able to ban any law made by the Australian people as long as they act within one year of its passing.
Under the constitution, ONLY the sovereign not the family, has the power to disallow a bill within one year of the Governor-General having granted Royal Assent. However, this has never been used, in over 100 years.

In my view, the only power that the sovereign holds, is the one to dissolve parliament, and allow the people to re-choose who they wish to lead them.

This power has been used only ONCE, in 1975, and the people took the opportunity to choose a new party to govern them.

The peoples choice in the new election resulted in the sitting party losing 30 seats from its 91 seats for the previous 66 seats. The previous opposition went from 61 seats to 91.

The Queen allowed the people to make a VERY decisive choice. Would a Politically, Financially, Power motived president, make such a move?

That is one question for people to consider.

Getting back to the German descent thing...

The 3rd Prime Minister of Australia, in 1904, had a German Grandparent.
The last Prime Minister was Welsh. Australians seem not to be too bothered about the original nationality of a person they chose to control them.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 4:15 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by ABCD...... View Post
And as long as everyone believes that, then a republic will happen.

Many do actually believe it, and are quite surprised when they learn the real truth
Of course, they don't control it like a train set, but they have undue influence over the establishment in Australia, as they demonstrated when a phone call from Clarence House changed the ABC TV schedule. Not right.


Under the constitution, ONLY the sovereign not the family, has the power to disallow a bill within one year of the Governor-General having granted Royal Assent. However, this has never been used, in over 100 years.
Yes, and now we know the next three sovereigns as well, and no opportunity to remove them from power if they are not up to the job.

The Queen allowed the people to make a VERY decisive choice. Would a Politically, Financially, Power motived president, make such a move?
Well that was very good of her, but the rest is just another counter-factual and they never lead anywhere.

Getting back to the German descent thing...

The 3rd Prime Minister of Australia, in 1904, had a German Grandparent.
The last Prime Minister was Welsh. Australians seem not to be too bothered about the original nationality of a person they chose to control them.
I think you make my point for me here. The whole issue here is that they get no choice.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 5:49 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Some costs involved could be:
  • Currency - all coins currently have Queen's head, so does $5 note
  • Changes in Governor's office for each state, as the Governors represent the Queen for their state
  • Costs involved in altering the constitution - not only the federal one, but probably also each state
  • Cost of running the actual referendum (even if at same time as an election, it would still cost extra)
  • Cost of running any plebiscites, as currently the republican people want to run 2 or 3 of these to determine what they actually want
  • Stationery
  • Potential change of national flag
  • Potential change of state flags
  • There would probably be a push for the President to be more visible than the Governor-General is, so extra costs involved with this potentially including more overseas trips, and receiving more state visits to show off their shiny new President
It's odd - in the UK, I'm very much a supporter of the UK becoming a republic. In Australia, I sit on the fence about Australia becoming a republic (mainly because I've seen enough Australian politics to know there are some potentially big dangers involved in what the office of President might become).
Is that you GaryP?

Originally Posted by brissybee View Post
I think death of Elizabeth will prompt big push for referendum. Sadly.

I'm not up on all the pros and cons but quite like Charles being a bit alternate. Why shouldn't he be King?
Agreed. He's not as big a See You Next Tuesday as people think and everyone does pick on him.

Give him a chance.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 6:05 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Like all kids that grow up and leave home, they'll be shocked at the costs involved but it's part of growing up. They've been living with mum and dad paying 20 bucks a week house keeping for 200 years, but instead of saving, they've thought they're bullet proof and pissed it up and bought lots of flash toys.

I do however think that waiting for mum to die before leaving would be extremely crass and in bad taste, best do it now so she can look at them with pride knowing they've grown up to be fine young adults
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 9:32 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

AFAIK since the passage of Australia Act 1986 the only remaining power of the Queen of Australia is to appoint the Governor-General of Australia on the advice of the Prime Minister of Australia.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 9:49 am
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by ABCD...... View Post
And as long as everyone believes that, then a republic will happen.

Many do actually believe it, and are quite surprised when they learn the real truth

In each of the states, the monarch is represented by a governor, appointed directly by the Queen on the advice of each of her respective AUSTRALIAN state governments.

The Governer Generals are Australian citizens.


Under the constitution, ONLY the sovereign not the family, has the power to disallow a bill within one year of the Governor-General having granted Royal Assent. However, this has never been used, in over 100 years.

In my view, the only power that the sovereign holds, is the one to dissolve parliament, and allow the people to re-choose who they wish to lead them.

This power has been used only ONCE, in 1975, and the people took the opportunity to choose a new party to govern them.

The peoples choice in the new election resulted in the sitting party losing 30 seats from its 91 seats for the previous 66 seats. The previous opposition went from 61 seats to 91.

The Queen allowed the people to make a VERY decisive choice. Would a Politically, Financially, Power motived president, make such a move?

That is one question for people to consider.

Getting back to the German descent thing...

The 3rd Prime Minister of Australia, in 1904, had a German Grandparent.
The last Prime Minister was Welsh. Australians seem not to be too bothered about the original nationality of a person they chose to control them.
An excellent factual post. I cant believe some people actually think the Queen removed Gough Whitlam
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 9:53 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by commonwealth View Post
AFAIK since the passage of Australia Act 1986 the only remaining power of the Queen of Australia is to appoint the Governor-General of Australia on the advice of the Prime Minister of Australia.
She is a figurehead in Australia, nothing more. The vast majority realise that and no doubt is reflected in the results of polls where the idea of a republic isnt particularly popular. The UK will probably never become a republic but it will probably happen one day in Australia and I guarantee it wont affect a single person in any tangible way.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 10:06 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Like all kids that grow up and leave home, they'll be shocked at the costs involved but it's part of growing up. They've been living with mum and dad paying 20 bucks a week house keeping for 200 years, but instead of saving, they've thought they're bullet proof and pissed it up and bought lots of flash toys.

I do however think that waiting for mum to die before leaving would be extremely crass and in bad taste, best do it now so she can look at them with pride knowing they've grown up to be fine young adults
Um Australia has never received a single cent from the UK or anyone else so quit your lying.

Australia has always been a net creditor. The UK is the one who is poor and has no future.
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 10:09 am
  #43  
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 10:32 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by Mr Grumpy View Post
Um Australia has never received a single cent from the UK or anyone else so quit your lying.

Australia has always been a net creditor. The UK is the one who is poor and has no future.


You're funny
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Old Jul 30th 2013, 10:34 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Australian Republic before King George VII

Originally Posted by commonwealth View Post
AFAIK since the passage of Australia Act 1986 the only remaining power of the Queen of Australia is to appoint the Governor-General of Australia on the advice of the Prime Minister of Australia.
Technically, but as we have seen with the infamous wedding phone call, they still have undue influence in Australia because their head of family is head of state and that is to be respected. So it is.
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