RenShen

Well the boss is reaping his own. He interviewed her and knew she was on her own with 3 small kids, had no car so would be running (!) to and from work. He said he liked her "energy". I could see it was edge of a nervous breakdown energy and not positive energy but he made the decision and, hey presto, we have an admittedly lovely lady who has mental health problems, childcare problems, ex husband and current boyfriend problems, drink problems (just about to get her license back after a drunk driving ban, but got no car yet). All fine and great to give her a chance, but he can't exactly be getting the shits everytime she is off!

big_matt

I'm having some beef with my employer at the moment. I have full leave entitlement and this week I have been off with significant health issues. Doctor wrote me a sick note for the first 3 days but thought I could go back today and yesterday. Didn't make it in for these 2 days.

Just got e-mail from work stating my immediate line manager needs to see my letter from the doctor to approve the leave.

I have always been a good employee and not much time off the whole time I've worked for them. My beef is:

a) Why should my line manager be seeing a medical certificate? Is that not HR's job? Some medical stuff could be very personal and I wouldnt like my line manager sitting reading the reason why I have time off

b) it seems a bit strict since I gave them the note for the first 3 days and I've been a longterm trusted and hardworking employee. Any thoughts?

Cheetah7

I would rise above the pettiness and be the bigger man for it, get them what they want, lets hope the doctor writes it in such a way they feel like crap for making you feel so bad.

I find by sticking by the book with sickness policies, you may eventually gain their trust or at the very least not give them any ammo to make it worse.

Im lucky, I took yesterday off for bad asthma and did some work from home and they have been fine about it.

Ginger3710

Since it's company money that's paying the employee for doing nothing, they have the right to make sure sick pay isn't being abused. If they let you off the hook, then they have to allow others do the same. It will be pretty hard to get a doctor's certificate after the fact though, most GPs won't provide a back dated certificate. It really boils down to how generous the individual supervisor is with regard to taking time off.

HR set the rules, but in my experience, the office supervisor has the right to ask that a certificate be provided at his discretion, and apparently change the rules whenever he sees fit and according to staff absences.

Many companies will allow 1 day off sick without a certificate, but they have the right to request a certificate for 1 day off, also either side of a weekend, especially long weekend. If you take time off "sick" because of your kids, the company doesn't have to pay you sick pay and may request you take the day off as annual leave or leave without pay, as sick pay is meant for the employee and not family or friends sickness. I have known people taking a day off for their kids, telling their supervisor that they are sick themselves in order to get sick pay for the day off because of this reason.

BAY

With respect if you couldn't make it in for those two days you should have gone back to the doctors and got another sick note. If they make an exception for you then they would have to make an exception for everyone and then your company's control of whole sickness system would break down. They pay your wages, if you don't like it find another job.

Cheetah7

Very good post.

My employer have been fantastic with me, when my husband was in hospital -they gave me as much time off as I needed fully paid, I took two weeks plus several days to go to appointments with him.

I cannot fault them and consider myself to be very lucky.

big_matt

I accept that, but as a trustworthy employee who has been with them for many years (and one whom they know is ill) I would have thought a bit of trust wouldn't be out of the question. I also don't think my line manager should be seeing a doctors letter, and this process should be handled by HR.

BAY

As I've said before if they bend the rules for you they have to bend it for everyone. Also when HR are processing the sickness notification (which they will do, whether your manager requests to see the doctors note or not) they won't know or care about you being trustworthy.

Was it a nasty rash ?

Pollyana

Might be worth checking this with HR - as long as the doctor certifies that youare unfit for work then he does not have to put the specific medical condition on the certificate. A previous employer in Qld told me this when I was responsible for checking leave etc for an office full of staff. We could insist on a doctor's note, but we couldn't ask what the actual condition was. All the medical certiificates I saw just said "Medical condition" and a signature stating the employee wasn't fit to work.
IF HR are happy with that, then your line manager need not know what the condition was - its all to do with personal privacy laws.

Wol

The problem in general is that sick leave is considered to be an entitlement regardless of whether one is ill or not.

It isn't (or shouldn't be) - it is basically a pool of time that someone who is genuinely sick can take from.

The way it's operated in Australia is akin to paying insurance through the year - and then claiming regardless of loss. That can't work. Insurance can only work if everyone gives up a little to help the occasional individual who needs recompense, and sick leave is no different.

ozhappy981

Go back to your doctor and ask for another sick note for the 2 days.

As Polly said: Both sick notes should just say that you were not fit to work due to a "medical reason".

Then give both sick notes to the line manager.

If you can't get a sick note from the doctor for those two days, explain it all to the line manager: You were sick, got sick note for 3 days, thought you'd be well enough for days 4 and 5, but you weren't well enough. Say you didn't realise you needed another sick note. Suggest to the line manager that they take those two days off your holiday entitlement.

Next time you are sick make sure you get a sick note for the required days - or suffer the consequences again.

Mr Grumpy

If this happened in NSW then it would be in breach of the Privacy Act. I am not sure about other states.

I use to work in Records Dpt and under no circumstances would I EVER disclose information about ANYONE to someone who rings up.

Even if the mother gives permission to discuss the matter it MUST be in writing and signed and dated.

The employer if in NSW has violated state law by making such demands. If the Centre gave out any info they are in even more shit.

Bermudashorts

Hmmm I think you have misread me. I questioned somebody else's post that stated it was illegal for the manager to call a day care centre. It would be a strange kind of legislation that made that illegal. Who said he made any demands? I did not question whether it was legal for the daycare centre to discuss their charges. It is really a no brainer that one should not give out information on others.

If I called your bank and said, my name is Bermudashorts and I would like to know about Mr Grumpy's financial affairs because I am just curious and they told me whatever I wanted to know - then it would be them that is legally in the wrong. Not me.

Mr Grumpy

The legislation also allows for the prosecution of those making demands. I know my organisation filed charges against a few people who still made demands once they were informed it was illegal. Lots of Australian laws allow you to actually punish people once they have been informed that their line of questioning/demands are illegal.

Another case is asking if a woman intends to become pregnant while employed. This is illegal, and if the employer is informed it is illegal and still makes a demand to know this is a criminal act.

iolande

Interesting - Do you know if the Privacy Act is at State level or Federal level? It would be interesting to know if different states have different Acts.