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Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Old Apr 22nd 2010, 2:49 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Shellfish View Post
Yes, I would have guessed you had never lived in Africa if you think Australia's incompetence and corruption is comparable
Four years, but a long time ago. It used to be Rhodesia then: a true third world story of corruption, incompetence and fraud now.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 3:28 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Wol View Post
Four years, but a long time ago. It used to be Rhodesia then: a true third world story of corruption, incompetence and fraud now.

Indeed. Whatever happened to that nice Mr Smith?


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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 3:34 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Wol View Post
Four years, but a long time ago. It used to be Rhodesia then: a true third world story of corruption, incompetence and fraud now.
The sort of carry-on that is found in Zimbabwe beggers belief so I cannot even fathom that Australia is in the same book let alone on the same page. And it's not just Africa, Eastern Europe - Russia in particular is incredibly corrupt, and in fact any country with with wealth disparaties is going to be affected and there are many.

I am not so naive as to think that Australia is corruption and incompetence free, but I my experience it's no better or no worse than the UK.

Last edited by Shellfish; Apr 22nd 2010 at 3:38 am. Reason: Some more
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 3:44 am
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Shellfish View Post
The sort of carry-on that is found in Zimbabwe beggers belief so I cannot even fathom that Australia is in the same book let alone on the same page. And it's not just Africa, Eastern Europe - Russia in particular is incredibly corrupt, and in fact any country with with wealth disparaties is going to be affected and there are many.

I am not so naive as to think that Australia is corruption and incompetence free, but I my experience it's no better or no worse than the UK.
But he isn't comparing Australia to Africa?
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 3:56 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Wol View Post
Australia may be a first world country in absolute economic terms, but it is a leading contender for the most corrupt and incompetent nation outside Africa.
Originally Posted by Lord_Farquar View Post
But he isn't comparing Australia to Africa?

I would say that's a bit of a comparison
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 4:00 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Shellfish View Post

I would say that's a bit of a comparison

No, he said outside of Africa, as if to suggest that Africa's level of corruption etc was a given, but that outside of that, then Australia came reasonably high on the corruption stakes.


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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 5:01 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Swerv-o View Post
No, he said outside of Africa, as if to suggest that Africa's level of corruption etc was a given, but that outside of that, then Australia came reasonably high on the corruption stakes.


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Exactly.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 5:44 am
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Wol View Post
Exactly.
And just where is this corruption you speak of?

Has a cop demanded a sweetener in order not to give you a ticket?

Has the RTA deskperson demanded an 'appreciation' to give you your licence?

Has the Local Council representative said to cough up with some kindo f kickback?

Just where is this corruption you speak of? I personally have seen none whatsoever in dealing with every local,state and federal govt agency you can think of.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 6:52 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by DownUnderPaddy View Post
My subjective experience from 8 years living here (having moved from Ireland in 2002) is of a good health system, no experience of crime, a truly multicultural society with a high degree of tolerance and diversity
Ireland and Aussie have 80% things in common so you may not have faced as much resistance to your diversity as a Caribbean migrant, Indian migrant or Persian migrant will face. Such countries have < 5% commonalities with Oz. So when the migrants try to do, wear or speak their native, it bothers many. People unncessarily start getting offended.

Instead of learning about new cultures some people ask such migrants to stop all that or leave Aus. I think this is not multiculturism - asking a migrant to kill his soul, his roots and completely fake himself into an Aussie or leave the shores. Do you think it is fair?
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 7:14 am
  #40  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by mpgrewal View Post
Ireland and Aussie have 80% things in common so you may not have faced as much resistance to your diversity as a Caribbean migrant, Indian migrant or Persian migrant will face. Such countries have < 5% commonalities with Oz. So when the migrants try to do, wear or speak their native, it bothers many. People unncessarily start getting offended.

Instead of learning about new cultures some people ask such migrants to stop all that or leave Aus. I think this is not multiculturism - asking a migrant to kill his soul, his roots and completely fake himself into an Aussie or leave the shores. Do you think it is fair?
You may have noticed that some Brits new to Australia also feel that theyre expected to forget where there from and never mention the homeland again unless its a negative so its not strictly racial IMO.

However, I would say that UK has become too ethnocentric and Im curious to see whether Australias 'fit in or f**k off' strategy might just work.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Officer Dibble View Post
'fit in or f**k off' strategy
Multicultural strategy is

'Fit in & Fit us in' - means you learn & adopt good things about aussie culture and we'll learn good things about your culture.

Every culture has great things to offer. Why not learn it and appreciate such virtues. Instead of arrogantly saying - you have to change yourself because you chose to come here..

Last edited by mpgrewal; Apr 22nd 2010 at 7:36 am.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 7:36 am
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by mpgrewal View Post
Multicultural strategy is

'Fit in & Fit us' - means you learn & adopt good things about aussie culture and we'll learn good things about your culture.

Every culture has great things to offer. Why not learn it and appreciate such virtues. Instead of arrogantly saying - you have to change yourself because you chose to come here..
What would be some good things about "your" culture that does not have a close parallel in "aussie culture"?

Last edited by AllGoode; Apr 22nd 2010 at 8:01 am.
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 7:55 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Wol View Post
Exactly.
I did actually mention other examples but I must be incorrect, I am now sure that Russia, Columbia, Peru, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, India, Pakistan, Taiwan...... are corruption free
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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 7:59 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

Originally Posted by Shellfish View Post
I did actually mention other examples but I must be incorrect, I am now sure that Russia, Columbia, Peru, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, India, Pakistan, Taiwan...... are corruption free

Probably not, but you sort of expect them to be corrupt places, because governance is not well advanced there.

Google Wollongong Council and Developer Donations and see where that gets you.


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Old Apr 22nd 2010, 12:39 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Is Australia a 1st world or 2nd world country?

It seems to me some posters would say australia is full of corruption just because they don't like it, some the opposite. So I thought I would look for some independent rankings.

While surveys aren't perfect I think they are a lot more trustworthy than the point of view of one person.

Of course you could always find a survey to suit your view so this survey is good as it averages the results of many other corruption surveys:

http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...cpi_2009_table

Here's the top twenty. Australia is near Canada like always. In every survey we seem to be right near Canada. If Australia ever sinks I'm moving there

I am surprised the UK/US/Germany/Japan finished below Hong Kong. There goes one of my prejudices.

1 New Zealand 9.4

2 Denmark 9.3

3 Singapore 9.2

3 Sweden 9.2

5 Switzerland 9.0

6 Finland 8.9

6 Netherlands 8.9

8 Australia 8.7

8 Canada 8.7

8 Iceland 8.7

11 Norway 8.6

12 Hong Kong 8.2

12 Luxembourg 8.2

14 Germany 8.0

14 Ireland 8.0

16 Austria 7.9

17 Japan 7.7

17 United Kingdom 7.7

19 United States 7.5

20 Barbados 7.4
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