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Aussie Dream Over??

Aussie Dream Over??

Old Dec 14th 2009, 12:27 am
  #91  
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Materialism is a good thing. That's why Australia is a 1st world country and NZ is not.
Hilarious! Materialism is most definitely NOT a good thing. Explains why you love Australia though so much though... NZ seems to be more developed than Australia in many ways.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by bcworld View Post
I know you haven't been posting on the forum long, but if you read back a few months on the Aus forum you will find almost identical posts. You'll find stories of people who came, spent months looking for work, then went home again. I've seen recent positive posts on the NZ forum re work in homebuilding etc, so it can't be all that stuffed.
I hope so, I wouldnt wish that on any country, or hardship upon any population.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 12:42 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
Hilarious! Materialism is most definitely NOT a good thing.
Why not? If people were not materialistic then we would not have an economy and the whole world would be like North Korea.

The British (like Australia, America, South Africa etc) are a very materialistic nation, hence they have (until recently) a very successful economy.

Last edited by Amazulu; Dec 14th 2009 at 12:46 am.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 1:01 am
  #94  
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Why not? If people were not materialistic then we would not have an economy and the whole world would be like North Korea.

The British (like Australia, America, South Africa etc) are a very materialistic nation, hence they have (until recently) a very successful economy.
Finland and Denmark have top economies yet remain at a societal level, unmaterialistic. They both share strong social values. Infact the US felt so threatened by Denmark some years back they virtually intimidated them into softening some of their social policies. Can't go having successful models other than capitalism now can we?

Materialism is simply a con constructed to support those with the power and influence to maintain the capitalist status quo.

The world wouldn't be like NK at all. That's something howard or abbot would trot out.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 1:14 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by kiwi_child View Post
Finland and Denmark have top economies yet remain at a societal level, unmaterialistic. They both share strong social values. Infact the US felt so threatened by Denmark some years back they virtually intimidated them into softening some of their social policies. Can't go having successful models other than capitalism now can we?

Materialism is simply a con constructed to support those with the power and influence to maintain the capitalist status quo.

The world wouldn't be like NK at all. That's something howard or abbot would trot out.
Slightly off topic but relevant.

Years ago I was doing an MBA. Sitting in an Organisational Behaviour class, the somewhat socialist lecturer was espousing a Vovo production line. It was built in open countryside, had huge glass windows so the workers could see the green fields. And every worker had a red button, which would stop the entire production line. Worker empowerment, he called it.

I asked how the plant was doing, and he tried to step around my question. I persisted. Finally he admitted that Volvo had been forced to shut the plant. The workers spent all day gazing out of the windows, and pushing the red “stop” button – meaning very few cars were actually being produced.

To quote the textbook: “In 1993, Volvo closed both its Kalmar and Udevalla plants, responding to market pressures to cut costs, rationalise workforces and increase output. It boosted production at its conventional plant at company headquarters in Gothenburg.”
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 1:41 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by kiwi_child View Post
Finland and Denmark have top economies yet remain at a societal level, unmaterialistic. They both share strong social values. Infact the US felt so threatened by Denmark some years back they virtually intimidated them into softening some of their social policies. Can't go having successful models other than capitalism now can we?

Materialism is simply a con constructed to support those with the power and influence to maintain the capitalist status quo.

The world wouldn't be like NK at all. That's something howard or abbot would trot out.
Rubbish. I've been to Copenhagen and it's full of designer shops, top class (and ultra-expensive) restaurants and bars, amazing houses and apartment blocks, BMWs and Porsches. Who owns/uses all this? Tourists? I know a Danish family here in the hills who prefer Australia as it is less materialistic.

Denmark has such a good social welfare system as they have high taxes - great if you are on welfare, not so great if you are a high earner and having to pay for it. They also have a highly educated and productive, switched-on workforce which helps. They can afford to be socialist and liberal because they have a successful capitalist economy.

Socialism only really works when there is someone to pay (and pay a lot) for it.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 4:52 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Rubbish. I've been to Copenhagen and it's full of designer shops, top class (and ultra-expensive) restaurants and bars, amazing houses and apartment blocks, BMWs and Porsches. Who owns/uses all this? Tourists? I know a Danish family here in the hills who prefer Australia as it is less materialistic.

Denmark has such a good social welfare system as they have high taxes - great if you are on welfare, not so great if you are a high earner and having to pay for it. They also have a highly educated and productive, switched-on workforce which helps. They can afford to be socialist and liberal because they have a successful capitalist economy.

Socialism only really works when there is someone to pay (and pay a lot) for it.
The world's model of trade is capitalism. I'm not surprised there would be elite shopping areas in any westernised country. I'm pretty sure they have their equivalents even in places like India.

The whole idea even of having to pay for anything is a constuct. When you say socialism only works when there is someone to pay...that is inherently linked into capitalist ideology and practice. Socialism isn't the only alternative and while we are at it, Karl Marx was neither a socialist or a communist. He was actually a democrat. His manifesto was ignored (and seen as a threat) by the capitalist owners of the means of production and picked up on by others.

Social justice while fitting into a 'socialist' ideology, has quite comfortably fitted into capitalist realities for decades as well. It's the extreme right who seek to crush it.

Last edited by kiwi_child; Dec 14th 2009 at 4:59 am.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 5:09 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

If we do annexe NZ for future mining rights way down south.... It could double as Australia retirement Village/Nursing home .... and provide work for the locals..

Win win.

Could be some rich old buggers for the Locals to take advantage of as well so even better.



That should sell the Idea




Could stick the smelly ones around Rotarua
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 5:47 am
  #99  
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by sr71 View Post
Upon returning to Melbourne it does not look attractive, especially the dryness. So refreshing to see greenery, hills, mountains etc.
Have a day out in the Dandenongs when you need a 'greenery' fix
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 5:50 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by The Crow View Post
Have a day out in the Dandenongs when you need a 'greenery' fix
I reckon I can get to Mount Macedon quicker and we are only 8k's out to the North here.

Still it's green at Macedon as well.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 7:37 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Devlin View Post
Hilarious! Materialism is most definitely NOT a good thing. Explains why you love Australia though so much though... NZ seems to be more developed than Australia in many ways.
Indeed.

Australia is hugely materialistic. Big house, big car etc etc etc. People in other countries don't demand those things in the way Aussies do.

Except, of course, Americans.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 8:35 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by mono View Post
Indeed.

Australia is hugely materialistic. Big house, big car etc etc etc. People in other countries don't demand those things in the way Aussies do.

Except, of course, Americans.
As is the UK. You see heaps of BMWs, Mercs, 911s on the road in the UK - much more than Australia. Plus all the 2nd homes in Cornwall and Devon, huge, upmarket malls, loads of Poms do longhaul holidays 2-3 times a year etc.

I have no problem with any of this, in any country because materialism is good.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 8:46 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by kiwi_child View Post
The world's model of trade is capitalism. I'm not surprised there would be elite shopping areas in any westernised country. I'm pretty sure they have their equivalents even in places like India.

The whole idea even of having to pay for anything is a constuct. When you say socialism only works when there is someone to pay...that is inherently linked into capitalist ideology and practice. Socialism isn't the only alternative and while we are at it, Karl Marx was neither a socialist or a communist. He was actually a democrat. His manifesto was ignored (and seen as a threat) by the capitalist owners of the means of production and picked up on by others.

Social justice while fitting into a 'socialist' ideology, has quite comfortably fitted into capitalist realities for decades as well. It's the extreme right who seek to crush it.
Wow, that's some socialist diatribe. It's more than 'elite shopping areas'. Denmark is a highly advanced, high standard of living country because they can afford to be. They can afford it because they have a capitalist system to support it. Materialism is a big part of this - and they have spade loads if it.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 8:58 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Apart from being a great place to visit, great lamb and great rugby, NZ has nothing to offer the rest of the world. It's a basket case.
Imo NZ has always punched well above it's weight given it's population and relative isolation. Wine, horse racing, tourism, dairy, wool, film/the arts, sports. I also find the people more welcoming than the Aussies, a bit gentler somehow.
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Old Dec 14th 2009, 9:12 am
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Default Re: Aussie Dream Over??

I believe generalisations will take you nowhere.
Anyway, those Kiwis I've met so far are kind of "purer" than aussies...
This is an interesting article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/population...0588706&pnum=1.
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