Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
Mar 9th 2012, 12:42 am
#16
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Mar 9th 2012, 2:55 am
#17
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Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
So speaking for myself, I work for a Fortune 500 company who is the world leader in IT & Hosting and operates in many countries. I have who has recently moved to Sydney and we have done a huge amount of research and take reports from Gartner, Hayes and E&Y etc and do look at the median as a GUIDE.
You are right in what you say but these figures are relative to the person and situation. For example a young person who has grown up in west London in the Grad Job market has the support of the family and can live at home etc will live VERY comfortable on 30k in pounds same goes if you switch London for any major city in the world and the median wage.
You take an engineer in the UK working in the City of London on 90 GBP circa 130 AUD it makes a HUGE difference because to maintain that persons standard of living and keeping that person in the 95th percent of IT wages its 200 AUD but the market here will pay 200 AUD and more if your the right person and skills.
Alex
You are right in what you say but these figures are relative to the person and situation. For example a young person who has grown up in west London in the Grad Job market has the support of the family and can live at home etc will live VERY comfortable on 30k in pounds same goes if you switch London for any major city in the world and the median wage.
You take an engineer in the UK working in the City of London on 90 GBP circa 130 AUD it makes a HUGE difference because to maintain that persons standard of living and keeping that person in the 95th percent of IT wages its 200 AUD but the market here will pay 200 AUD and more if your the right person and skills.
Alex
Mar 9th 2012, 3:45 am
#18
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Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
Now i keep hearing on these forums (including a number of prominent posters!) that London is a great place for IT work, that Aus isnt worth going to if you work in that field, you get a comparable wage in london and a cheaper cost of living. So I ran an Excel spreadsheet for Reed.co.uk and Seek.com.au IT job offers. Aside from the fact that Aus cities have far more job offers per capita(~3.5 times more in the case of Sydney vs London), the wages were what really shocked me:
Sydney median(£*1000) IT wage 65,26
Melbourne median(£*1000) IT wage 54,58
Perth median(£*1000) IT wage 54,07
Brisbane median(£*1000) IT wage 53,91
...
London median(£*1000) IT wage 37,47
You literally earn 74% MORE MONEY in Sydney than London. That would factor into 2.586 for the wage equivalent exchange rate. Like how in the hell? And the messed up thing is, when i look at what the costs of living for a frugal person like me would be, Sydney isnt even that expensive! When i looked at median 1-bedroom rent offers on the Gumtree site of both cities, Sydney was at 340$ while London at 280£. Add to that London having the most expensive Subway in the world and big gas costs, Now even with as large a margin of error as that might have, London seems far from being a great IT destination, more like a questionable destination all in all.
Sources-
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/it-telecoms/london
http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?Dat...Classification
(http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-apartmen...435?sort=price and http://www.gumtree.com/1-bedroom-ren...der=increasing )
( http://www.ptua.org.au/melbourne/far...son/june-2007/ , author claims it to have been updated in 2009 )
Sydney median(£*1000) IT wage 65,26
Melbourne median(£*1000) IT wage 54,58
Perth median(£*1000) IT wage 54,07
Brisbane median(£*1000) IT wage 53,91
...
London median(£*1000) IT wage 37,47
You literally earn 74% MORE MONEY in Sydney than London. That would factor into 2.586 for the wage equivalent exchange rate. Like how in the hell? And the messed up thing is, when i look at what the costs of living for a frugal person like me would be, Sydney isnt even that expensive! When i looked at median 1-bedroom rent offers on the Gumtree site of both cities, Sydney was at 340$ while London at 280£. Add to that London having the most expensive Subway in the world and big gas costs, Now even with as large a margin of error as that might have, London seems far from being a great IT destination, more like a questionable destination all in all.
Sources-
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/it-telecoms/london
http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?Dat...Classification
(http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-apartmen...435?sort=price and http://www.gumtree.com/1-bedroom-ren...der=increasing )
( http://www.ptua.org.au/melbourne/far...son/june-2007/ , author claims it to have been updated in 2009 )
Mar 9th 2012, 5:06 am
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
Im not criticising, but are you mixing currencies, if not, what exchange rates are you using ? (sorry, but im an accountant)
Also, im a bit surprised that the forum seems to have turned on you and attacked you. Which, from what I can see is, for no good reason.
Sometimes I really dont like BE. And thats why I dont post here often.
On BE, I think people pull out a nose hair just before they post, so they can take it out on someone.
Also, im a bit surprised that the forum seems to have turned on you and attacked you. Which, from what I can see is, for no good reason.
Sometimes I really dont like BE. And thats why I dont post here often.
On BE, I think people pull out a nose hair just before they post, so they can take it out on someone.
To the OP - the numbers you have gleaned from the web might stack up but this one needs more analysis...
Mar 9th 2012, 11:03 am
#20
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Thread Starter
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Posts: 42
Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
I would think the pound sign indicates that's not the case but that dollar salaries have been converted to pounds at current exchange rates.
I certainly don't believe I'm paid 2.5 times what I would be in London.
If I convert into pounds at today's exchange rate I'm paid approximately double what I earned in SE England NINE years ago. Some friends & former colleagues are paid (in the UK) about the same as I am now, some a bit less...again multiplying by 1.5 ex rate.
In real terms I think the salaries are comparable and nothing like as different as the OP is suggesting. Ask yourself, if some sudden financial crisis occurred, Greek default say and the markets got all non sensical and pushed the ex rate to 2.70 all of a sudden, like in 2008...would you have to redo the calculations...are people in Sydney paid less all of a sudden? No.
I certainly don't believe I'm paid 2.5 times what I would be in London.
If I convert into pounds at today's exchange rate I'm paid approximately double what I earned in SE England NINE years ago. Some friends & former colleagues are paid (in the UK) about the same as I am now, some a bit less...again multiplying by 1.5 ex rate.
In real terms I think the salaries are comparable and nothing like as different as the OP is suggesting. Ask yourself, if some sudden financial crisis occurred, Greek default say and the markets got all non sensical and pushed the ex rate to 2.70 all of a sudden, like in 2008...would you have to redo the calculations...are people in Sydney paid less all of a sudden? No.
about subway i meant the metro trains not the sandwich brand
-Anyway my median formula was messed up now i corrected it, and also looked at the developer job offers to see how those in specific stacked up between countries
Now i keep hearing on these forums that London is a great place for IT work, that Aus isnt worth going to if you work in that field, you get a comparable wage in london and a cheaper cost of living. So I ran an Excel spreadsheet for Reed.co.uk and Seek.com.au IT job offers. Aside from the fact that Aus cities have far more job offers per capita(~3.5 times more in the case of Sydney vs London), the wages were what really shocked me:
Sydney median(£*1000) IT wage 60,67531859
Melbourne median(£*1000) IT wage 60,0227196
Perth median(£*1000) IT wage 56,33255633
Brisbane median(£*1000) IT wage 57,64361966
London median(£*1000) IT wage 35
When looking at the median Developer wage its
Sydney median(£*1000) dev wage 59,46895859
Melbourne median(£*1000) dev wage 55,51625201
Perth median(£*1000) dev wage 51,73688101
Brisbane median(£*1000) dev wage 52,28339735
London median(£*1000) dev wage 36
You literally earn 73% MORE MONEY in Sydney than London. Or 65% more as a Dev. Like how in the hell? And the messed up thing is, when i look at what the costs of living for a frugal person like me would be, Sydney isnt even that expensive! When i looked at median 1-bedroom rent offers on the Gumtree site of both cities, Sydney was at 340$ while London at 280£. Add to that London having the most expensive Subway in the world and big gas costs, Now even with as large a margin of error as that might have, London seems far from being a great IT destination, more like a questionable destination all in all.
Sources-
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/it-telecoms/london
http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?Dat...Classification
(http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-apartmen...435?sort=price and http://www.gumtree.com/1-bedroom-ren...der=increasing )
( http://www.ptua.org.au/melbourne/far...son/june-2007/ , author claims it to have been updated in 2009 )
Last edited by nandnor; Mar 9th 2012 at 11:05 am.
Mar 9th 2012, 11:43 am
#21
Frequent Flyer Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
It's like, like groundhog day.
and still as inaccurate.
Mar 9th 2012, 8:51 pm
#23
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
I'll be on to my employer first thing Monday, questioning why I'm not being paid to the nearest millionth of a cent.
Mar 9th 2012, 9:03 pm
#24
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Mar 9th 2012, 9:32 pm
#25
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2012
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Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
the point im making does not assume the numbers being accurate, not in the slightest. it only assumes the RELATION of the numbers being accurate. and given the large sample size of both job markets, i would assume most causes of errors statistically smooth themselves out to a similar offset in all the numbers.
Mar 9th 2012, 10:02 pm
#26
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
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Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
The main point of discussion boards such as BE is that people share info. If someone disagrees with that info and provides differing facts it surely helps everyone else.
Mar 10th 2012, 7:06 am
#27
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
Lots of jobs in London in my field. They seem to have dropped off here although I am starting new position in a week.
Salaries are very much the same at current exchange rate. I am suprised at the increase in vacancies in my field in London. Before there were more jobs in Sydney than the whole SE England.
That is my field of work and not necessarily what others will experience.
Cost of living is something else and I have been away too long to know or frankly care.
Salaries are very much the same at current exchange rate. I am suprised at the increase in vacancies in my field in London. Before there were more jobs in Sydney than the whole SE England.
That is my field of work and not necessarily what others will experience.
Cost of living is something else and I have been away too long to know or frankly care.
Mar 11th 2012, 10:13 am
#28
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 42
Re: Aus not better than London for IT - debunked
Perhaps you should try buying your sandwiches elsewhere.
I have always thought the general IT salaries for permanents were not great in the UK. Companies like CSC, Fujitsu, Microsoft and loads of others thrive by having its of their workforce earning only £40-45k pa. £60-70+ would be considered exceptional.
Where you could make the money was in the contracting market, especially in London and especially when the exchange rate was 2.5 to 1
I have always thought the general IT salaries for permanents were not great in the UK. Companies like CSC, Fujitsu, Microsoft and loads of others thrive by having its of their workforce earning only £40-45k pa. £60-70+ would be considered exceptional.
Where you could make the money was in the contracting market, especially in London and especially when the exchange rate was 2.5 to 1
Lots of jobs in London in my field. They seem to have dropped off here although I am starting new position in a week.
Salaries are very much the same at current exchange rate. I am suprised at the increase in vacancies in my field in London. Before there were more jobs in Sydney than the whole SE England.
That is my field of work and not necessarily what others will experience.
Cost of living is something else and I have been away too long to know or frankly care.
Salaries are very much the same at current exchange rate. I am suprised at the increase in vacancies in my field in London. Before there were more jobs in Sydney than the whole SE England.
That is my field of work and not necessarily what others will experience.
Cost of living is something else and I have been away too long to know or frankly care.
Mar 11th 2012, 10:15 am
#29
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