Aus construction standards
Dec 19th 2002, 11:44 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: 'stralia
Posts: 43
Aus construction standards
I'm seeking a few opinions on the quality of house building and fitting-out (i.e. kitchens etc.).
I know very little about building, but my impression is that houses in Aus are not as well built as in the UK - is there anyone in the building trade that can comment on that? They just don't seem as substantial.
I recently had some kitchen units fitted and I'm not very happy with the workmanship and quality. They don't look half as good as the ones I had in my house in the UK - more like 'film set' quality. They look OK from a distance, but up close you can see the poor quality.
Is it the case that these items are of lower standard in Aus as compared to Europe?
I know very little about building, but my impression is that houses in Aus are not as well built as in the UK - is there anyone in the building trade that can comment on that? They just don't seem as substantial.
I recently had some kitchen units fitted and I'm not very happy with the workmanship and quality. They don't look half as good as the ones I had in my house in the UK - more like 'film set' quality. They look OK from a distance, but up close you can see the poor quality.
Is it the case that these items are of lower standard in Aus as compared to Europe?
Dec 19th 2002, 12:41 pm
#2
Y Ddraig Goch
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Body is in Brissie. Heart and soul has long flown home.
Posts: 3,722
Re: Aus construction standards
Originally posted by Bernard
I'm seeking a few opinions on the quality of house building and fitting-out (i.e. kitchens etc.).
I know very little about building, but my impression is that houses in Aus are not as well built as in the UK - is there anyone in the building trade that can comment on that? They just don't seem as substantial.
I recently had some kitchen units fitted and I'm not very happy with the workmanship and quality. They don't look half as good as the ones I had in my house in the UK - more like 'film set' quality. They look OK from a distance, but up close you can see the poor quality.
Is it the case that these items are of lower standard in Aus as compared to Europe?
I'm seeking a few opinions on the quality of house building and fitting-out (i.e. kitchens etc.).
I know very little about building, but my impression is that houses in Aus are not as well built as in the UK - is there anyone in the building trade that can comment on that? They just don't seem as substantial.
I recently had some kitchen units fitted and I'm not very happy with the workmanship and quality. They don't look half as good as the ones I had in my house in the UK - more like 'film set' quality. They look OK from a distance, but up close you can see the poor quality.
Is it the case that these items are of lower standard in Aus as compared to Europe?
.I'm not being funny. I'm currently in the process of building here, and fitting everything out. The houses are unlike the British way, they make the frame of wood (unless you go for steel) and the facing brick, basically the wood frame is holding up the roof, and not the bricks. You are right with your observations, we've had terrible trouble here with our planning of the house, sub standard practices here. The kitchen which we have just chosen for our house, yet to be built yet .. the material/covering is very thin.. the top looks all lovely and sleek like carbon fibre but the thickness of it/underneath the covering is very plywood like. they are all like that unless you go for solid wood like tassie oak, lovely to look at, but won't last.. We've had arguments with our building company from how high the duct/vent from the cook top should be, to the electrical layout. I think too many people buying /building houses here settle for what looks nice, don't know any better maybe, all face value.
No word of a lie we (myself and partner) have been in the process of building for a year, we keep sending plans back, because they get it wrong, don't understand quality, we've changed most things, only now we've finally got everything alright, and hope to lay the slab in January, although we had yet another argument last week with our "middle man"
If you're expecting quality from Aussie builders your in for a sad shock. They do not build houses to last. The foundation does not go deep like the way they lay the British houses, and the wooden frames inside basically holds up the roof not the bricks... it's all face value
Anyway welcome to the Australian house building
cheers.
P.S, I think Dotty (another poster here, but she's away on holiday at the moment in the UK , I think), her and her husband are in the kitchen and building trade and may be able to advise you when she gets back.
Last edited by Ceri; Dec 19th 2002 at 12:47 pm.
Dec 19th 2002, 12:59 pm
#3
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: 'stralia
Posts: 43
Re: Aus construction standards
Originally posted by Ceri
Bernard welcome to Australian house building and construction.
I'm not being funny. I'm currently in the process of building here, and fitting everything out. The houses are unlike the British way, they make the frame of wood (unless you go for steel) and the facing brick, basically the wood frame is holding up the roof, and not the bricks. You are right with your observations, we've had terrible trouble here with our planning of the house, sub standard practices here. The kitchen which we have just chosen for our house, yet to be built yet .. the material/covering is very thin.. the top looks all lovely and sleek like carbon fibre but the thickness of it/underneath the covering is very plywood like. they are all like that unless you go for solid wood like tassie oak, lovely to look at, but won't last.. We've had arguments with our building company from how high the duct/vent from the cook top should be, to the electrical layout. I think too many people buying /building houses here settle for what looks nice, don't know any better maybe, all face value.
No word of a lie we (myself and partner) have been in the process of building for a year, we keep sending plans back, because they get it wrong, don't understand quality, we've changed most things, only now we've finally got everything alright, and hope to lay the slab in January, although we had yet another argument last week with our "middle man"
If you're expecting quality from Aussie builders your in for a sad shock. They do not build houses to last. The foundation does not go deep like the way they lay the British houses, and the wooden frames inside basically holds up the roof not the bricks... it's all face value
Anyway welcome to the Australian house building
cheers.
Bernard welcome to Australian house building and construction
.I'm not being funny. I'm currently in the process of building here, and fitting everything out. The houses are unlike the British way, they make the frame of wood (unless you go for steel) and the facing brick, basically the wood frame is holding up the roof, and not the bricks. You are right with your observations, we've had terrible trouble here with our planning of the house, sub standard practices here. The kitchen which we have just chosen for our house, yet to be built yet .. the material/covering is very thin.. the top looks all lovely and sleek like carbon fibre but the thickness of it/underneath the covering is very plywood like. they are all like that unless you go for solid wood like tassie oak, lovely to look at, but won't last.. We've had arguments with our building company from how high the duct/vent from the cook top should be, to the electrical layout. I think too many people buying /building houses here settle for what looks nice, don't know any better maybe, all face value.
No word of a lie we (myself and partner) have been in the process of building for a year, we keep sending plans back, because they get it wrong, don't understand quality, we've changed most things, only now we've finally got everything alright, and hope to lay the slab in January, although we had yet another argument last week with our "middle man"
If you're expecting quality from Aussie builders your in for a sad shock. They do not build houses to last. The foundation does not go deep like the way they lay the British houses, and the wooden frames inside basically holds up the roof not the bricks... it's all face value
Anyway welcome to the Australian house building
cheers.
I know the houses have a timber frame, but there are timber frame houses in the UK too and they seem much more substantial than Aus houses. Some of the Aus houses seem a bit like the old British post-war 'prefabs'. I'm just really amazed that with all the raw materials around us, they don't use better materials. I'm sure timber must be much cheaper in Aus than in the UK, so why do they skimp so?
Dec 19th 2002, 1:11 pm
#4
Y Ddraig Goch
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Body is in Brissie. Heart and soul has long flown home.
Posts: 3,722
Re: Aus construction standards
Originally posted by Bernard
Glad its not just me then.
I know the houses have a timber frame, but there are timber frame houses in the UK too and they seem much more substantial than Aus houses. Some of the Aus houses seem a bit like the old British post-war 'prefabs'. I'm just really amazed that with all the raw materials around us, they don't use better materials. I'm sure timber must be much cheaper in Aus than in the UK, so why do they skimp so?
Glad its not just me then.
I know the houses have a timber frame, but there are timber frame houses in the UK too and they seem much more substantial than Aus houses. Some of the Aus houses seem a bit like the old British post-war 'prefabs'. I'm just really amazed that with all the raw materials around us, they don't use better materials. I'm sure timber must be much cheaper in Aus than in the UK, so why do they skimp so?
And really good luck to you, I know what's it like trying to build here... the arguments
with the building companies.. most people build here in less than a year from signing up with a construction company. We've been at it just over a year, I think we signed up with our building company just before last Christmas.. all this year, my partner who's good on cad/design, has changed the plans, we've been back and fore. And the arguments
, I think we must have p*ssed off everyone in the company. But the sub standards are unbelievable!Anyway good luck, and no you're not the only one, just stick to your guns. Pity Dotty wasn't here, I'm sure she said her and her husband run their own Kitchen company here in Aus (Brisbane), she could probably give you some good advice on your kitchen.
Dec 19th 2002, 6:16 pm
#5
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Hi Ceri/Bernard,
Been following your thread with interest as I'm a brickie with 18 yrs in the trade and currently looking to migrate to Aust. A couple of things to bear in mind re the construction, in U.K we only go down a minimum of 650mm in the foundations to protect the concrete from frost damage likewise our traditional Brick and block housing with cavity wall insulation is so that we achieve the necessary "U" value required by law to prevent the unnecessary waste of heat energy. To compare a UK house to an Aussie one is a little unfair, we always seem to go for the overkill option, a good comparison of this is the pre stressed roof trusses that are popular in the UK now, they use timbers that are often less than half the thickness an architect/engineer would insist on when building a traditional "built roof". UK timber framed houses also carry the roof on the inside as the wall plate is on the inside skin.
The standards on the sites I visited were as good if not better than UK and judging from my recent skills assessment, training is at least equal to the UK.
One thing I did notice was that everyone wants the job doing as cheaply as possible and clearly cheap means 2nd grade materials and labour. Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more. If you feel you want better quality you will have to pay for it. It's unfortunate your having problems but my advice is YOU are the paying customer so stick to your guns, at the end of the day it is the builders job to satisfy you not the other way around. Ask around the locals and see who does a good job for a fair price there are cowboys in every country as well as competent tradesmen. The company I work for has never advertised, our work is a visual advert and we have plenty. Word of mouth is worth far more than a large ad in the local paper and you'll find a good builder probably doesn't need to advertise.
Been following your thread with interest as I'm a brickie with 18 yrs in the trade and currently looking to migrate to Aust. A couple of things to bear in mind re the construction, in U.K we only go down a minimum of 650mm in the foundations to protect the concrete from frost damage likewise our traditional Brick and block housing with cavity wall insulation is so that we achieve the necessary "U" value required by law to prevent the unnecessary waste of heat energy. To compare a UK house to an Aussie one is a little unfair, we always seem to go for the overkill option, a good comparison of this is the pre stressed roof trusses that are popular in the UK now, they use timbers that are often less than half the thickness an architect/engineer would insist on when building a traditional "built roof". UK timber framed houses also carry the roof on the inside as the wall plate is on the inside skin.
The standards on the sites I visited were as good if not better than UK and judging from my recent skills assessment, training is at least equal to the UK.
One thing I did notice was that everyone wants the job doing as cheaply as possible and clearly cheap means 2nd grade materials and labour. Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more. If you feel you want better quality you will have to pay for it. It's unfortunate your having problems but my advice is YOU are the paying customer so stick to your guns, at the end of the day it is the builders job to satisfy you not the other way around. Ask around the locals and see who does a good job for a fair price there are cowboys in every country as well as competent tradesmen. The company I work for has never advertised, our work is a visual advert and we have plenty. Word of mouth is worth far more than a large ad in the local paper and you'll find a good builder probably doesn't need to advertise.
Dec 19th 2002, 6:50 pm
#6
huge,throbbing member
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Maaaaanjerra WA
Posts: 833
Hi Sean,don't forget in Oz,you'll have to wear shorts,not troosies,that slip halfway down yer ring-piece,so ensure you have a good waxing clinic lined up.
BB-don,t hit me,I can't help it!
BB-don,t hit me,I can't help it!
Dec 19th 2002, 7:19 pm
#7
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Ahh shucks looks like I'll have to be quaffin loads of them meat pies then just to show my crack off to it's full potential mmmmm
Dec 19th 2002, 7:27 pm
#8
huge,throbbing member
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Maaaaanjerra WA
Posts: 833
Originally posted by cresta57
Ahh shucks looks like I'll have to be quaffin loads of them meat pies then just to show my crack off to it's full potential mmmmm
Ahh shucks looks like I'll have to be quaffin loads of them meat pies then just to show my crack off to it's full potential mmmmm
BB-nah mate,it's the floor that's p****d
Dec 19th 2002, 7:55 pm
#9
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
I can imagine the scene at your place Mrs BB changing the fuse in the chrissy tree lights using a knife from the cuttlery drawer cursing all the twisted together and taped up cable joints the hoover in the garage that your gonna fix one day next to the microwave thats gathering dust as well.
Hey my old man's a retired spark and when he went off sailing around the world my mum had a skip to clear the garage and shed of stuff he was gonna fix!!!!!!!!!!
Hey my old man's a retired spark and when he went off sailing around the world my mum had a skip to clear the garage and shed of stuff he was gonna fix!!!!!!!!!!
Dec 19th 2002, 8:11 pm
#10
huge,throbbing member
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Maaaaanjerra WA
Posts: 833
Originally posted by cresta57
I can imagine the scene at your place Mrs BB changing the fuse in the chrissy tree lights using a knife from the cuttlery drawer cursing all the twisted together and taped up cable joints the hoover in the garage that your gonna fix one day next to the microwave thats gathering dust as well.
Hey my old man's a retired spark and when he went off sailing around the world my mum had a skip to clear the garage and shed of stuff he was gonna fix!!!!!!!!!!
I can imagine the scene at your place Mrs BB changing the fuse in the chrissy tree lights using a knife from the cuttlery drawer cursing all the twisted together and taped up cable joints the hoover in the garage that your gonna fix one day next to the microwave thats gathering dust as well.
Hey my old man's a retired spark and when he went off sailing around the world my mum had a skip to clear the garage and shed of stuff he was gonna fix!!!!!!!!!!
BB-man of few words
Dec 19th 2002, 8:46 pm
#11
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: 'stralia
Posts: 43
Originally posted by cresta57
Hi Ceri/Bernard,
Been following your thread with interest as I'm a brickie with 18 yrs in the trade and currently looking to migrate to Aust. A couple of things to bear in mind re the construction, in U.K we only go down a minimum of 650mm in the foundations to protect the concrete from frost damage likewise our traditional Brick and block housing with cavity wall insulation is so that we achieve the necessary "U" value required by law to prevent the unnecessary waste of heat energy. To compare a UK house to an Aussie one is a little unfair, we always seem to go for the overkill option, a good comparison of this is the pre stressed roof trusses that are popular in the UK now, they use timbers that are often less than half the thickness an architect/engineer would insist on when building a traditional "built roof". UK timber framed houses also carry the roof on the inside as the wall plate is on the inside skin.
The standards on the sites I visited were as good if not better than UK and judging from my recent skills assessment, training is at least equal to the UK.
One thing I did notice was that everyone wants the job doing as cheaply as possible and clearly cheap means 2nd grade materials and labour. Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more. If you feel you want better quality you will have to pay for it. It's unfortunate your having problems but my advice is YOU are the paying customer so stick to your guns, at the end of the day it is the builders job to satisfy you not the other way around. Ask around the locals and see who does a good job for a fair price there are cowboys in every country as well as competent tradesmen. The company I work for has never advertised, our work is a visual advert and we have plenty. Word of mouth is worth far more than a large ad in the local paper and you'll find a good builder probably doesn't need to advertise.
Hi Ceri/Bernard,
Been following your thread with interest as I'm a brickie with 18 yrs in the trade and currently looking to migrate to Aust. A couple of things to bear in mind re the construction, in U.K we only go down a minimum of 650mm in the foundations to protect the concrete from frost damage likewise our traditional Brick and block housing with cavity wall insulation is so that we achieve the necessary "U" value required by law to prevent the unnecessary waste of heat energy. To compare a UK house to an Aussie one is a little unfair, we always seem to go for the overkill option, a good comparison of this is the pre stressed roof trusses that are popular in the UK now, they use timbers that are often less than half the thickness an architect/engineer would insist on when building a traditional "built roof". UK timber framed houses also carry the roof on the inside as the wall plate is on the inside skin.
The standards on the sites I visited were as good if not better than UK and judging from my recent skills assessment, training is at least equal to the UK.
One thing I did notice was that everyone wants the job doing as cheaply as possible and clearly cheap means 2nd grade materials and labour. Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more. If you feel you want better quality you will have to pay for it. It's unfortunate your having problems but my advice is YOU are the paying customer so stick to your guns, at the end of the day it is the builders job to satisfy you not the other way around. Ask around the locals and see who does a good job for a fair price there are cowboys in every country as well as competent tradesmen. The company I work for has never advertised, our work is a visual advert and we have plenty. Word of mouth is worth far more than a large ad in the local paper and you'll find a good builder probably doesn't need to advertise.
"Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more."
Why is it that British people always think that we enjoy more leisure time in Aus? Its really not the case.
Dec 19th 2002, 9:06 pm
#12
Senior member
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 835
Originally posted by Bernard
Interesting comments, but I have to say that I've been in a few Aussie houses where the wall visibly moves if you slam a door!
"Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more."
Why is it that British people always think that we enjoy more leisure time in Aus? Its really not the case.
Interesting comments, but I have to say that I've been in a few Aussie houses where the wall visibly moves if you slam a door!
"Aussies probably prefer to spend less time working to pay for expensive products and appreciate their increased leisure time more."
Why is it that British people always think that we enjoy more leisure time in Aus? Its really not the case.
I think the British dream up the 'more leisure time' fantasy because we equate sunshine with holidays and leisure time. So far from the truth its laughable!
Dec 19th 2002, 9:08 pm
#13
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Originally posted by baldbutts
Uncanny!
BB-man of few words
Uncanny!
BB-man of few words
His oh so forgiving wife
Debbie
Dec 20th 2002, 12:02 am
#14
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Originally posted by Herman
I have worked in numerous places, including London where people supposedly work their arses off, but I've never had LESS leisure time than in Oz. Consumer obsession with low prices means high competition in the market place which means businesses have to push their employees that extra mile to compete.
I think the British dream up the 'more leisure time' fantasy because we equate sunshine with holidays and leisure time. So far from the truth its laughable!
I have worked in numerous places, including London where people supposedly work their arses off, but I've never had LESS leisure time than in Oz. Consumer obsession with low prices means high competition in the market place which means businesses have to push their employees that extra mile to compete.
I think the British dream up the 'more leisure time' fantasy because we equate sunshine with holidays and leisure time. So far from the truth its laughable!
Most of the folks I met in Australia were the same they worked to live not lived to work. Most were well travelled and thought nothing of giving up a job to sail off on a 3 month cruise or even a 3 year around the world trip. I met a few that lived on their boats and as soon as they had enough for another trip off they went. They wern't rich buisness types just ordinary tradesmen like myself who appreciated life.
The reason we went and checked out the place was to find out what the wages and cost of property was and in my case I found the hourly rate was a lot more than I earn in the UK and the property a lot cheaper. Living in the North Lincolnshire/Humberside region the property is some of the lowest priced in the country, a terraced home cost's an average of around £35k here in Grimsby the wages here reflect the low cost of property but I can still sell up and buy a plot of land build a place on it and have no mortguage in Australia. No mortguage means less money needed ie less hours worked =more leasure time
If I had a large house with an equally large mortguage and found that the rate of pay in Australia was less than here and I still had to buy an expensive house in or close to a Major City I'd be bloody stupid to sell up and go wouln't I? Still I could always sit on here and winge about being badly done too!!!!!!!!.
Dec 20th 2002, 1:00 am
#15
Senior member
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 835
Originally posted by cresta57
I work alongside 2 Aussies and a Kiwi and all 3 do just enough to pay the bills and only work o/t if they want something special. Totally unlike the rest of the lads who work all the o/t going and come to rely on it to fund their lifestyles.
Most of the folks I met in Australia were the same they worked to live not lived to work. Most were well travelled and thought nothing of giving up a job to sail off on a 3 month cruise or even a 3 year around the world trip. I met a few that lived on their boats and as soon as they had enough for another trip off they went. They wern't rich buisness types just ordinary tradesmen like myself who appreciated life.
The reason we went and checked out the place was to find out what the wages and cost of property was and in my case I found the hourly rate was a lot more than I earn in the UK and the property a lot cheaper. Living in the North Lincolnshire/Humberside region the property is some of the lowest priced in the country, a terraced home cost's an average of around £35k here in Grimsby the wages here reflect the low cost of property but I can still sell up and buy a plot of land build a place on it and have no mortguage in Australia. No mortguage means less money needed ie less hours worked =more leasure time
If I had a large house with an equally large mortguage and found that the rate of pay in Australia was less than here and I still had to buy an expensive house in or close to a Major City I'd be bloody stupid to sell up and go wouln't I? Still I could always sit on here and winge about being badly done too!!!!!!!!.
I work alongside 2 Aussies and a Kiwi and all 3 do just enough to pay the bills and only work o/t if they want something special. Totally unlike the rest of the lads who work all the o/t going and come to rely on it to fund their lifestyles.
Most of the folks I met in Australia were the same they worked to live not lived to work. Most were well travelled and thought nothing of giving up a job to sail off on a 3 month cruise or even a 3 year around the world trip. I met a few that lived on their boats and as soon as they had enough for another trip off they went. They wern't rich buisness types just ordinary tradesmen like myself who appreciated life.
The reason we went and checked out the place was to find out what the wages and cost of property was and in my case I found the hourly rate was a lot more than I earn in the UK and the property a lot cheaper. Living in the North Lincolnshire/Humberside region the property is some of the lowest priced in the country, a terraced home cost's an average of around £35k here in Grimsby the wages here reflect the low cost of property but I can still sell up and buy a plot of land build a place on it and have no mortguage in Australia. No mortguage means less money needed ie less hours worked =more leasure time
If I had a large house with an equally large mortguage and found that the rate of pay in Australia was less than here and I still had to buy an expensive house in or close to a Major City I'd be bloody stupid to sell up and go wouln't I? Still I could always sit on here and winge about being badly done too!!!!!!!!.