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Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Old Apr 5th 2013, 3:31 am
  #1  
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Default Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

....'cos I can't.

I watched the whole sorry thing on ABC this morning and the details were clear as mud, as were the ABC's 'explanation" and also those of the online newspapers.

As usual in Australia they managed to make everything ambivalent.

And after spending the first ten minutes saying how Super is too important to be a political fight they took every opportunity to throw mud at the opposition. What a load of creeps!
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 3:54 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Man the government (or whatever persuasion) so want to get their hands on all that super money.

It won't be long before we are all required to hold "risk free" government bonds.
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 4:37 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Wol
....'cos I can't.

I watched the whole sorry thing on ABC this morning and the details were clear as mud, as were the ABC's 'explanation" and also those of the online newspapers.

As usual in Australia they managed to make everything ambivalent.

And after spending the first ten minutes saying how Super is too important to be a political fight they took every opportunity to throw mud at the opposition. What a load of creeps!
I agree, it's complicated. Basically it's good old socialist class warfare - an attempt to pander to their union masters. By their own admission, they are not going to raise much from this measure. So class-warfare it is.

Despite it's many flaws, I think super is a very good idea. It's now $1.5t - bigger than GDP, the 4th largest pension system in the world. But if you are going to force people to contribute to it, don't start paying political games with it. Many people, who are not 'fabulously wealthy' will have over $2m in super. They may have got it by hard work, sacrifice, canny investments and a bit of luck. They are not going to be a burden on the state. Leave them alone.

Time to go Swannie

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Old Apr 5th 2013, 4:45 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by renth
Man the government (or whatever persuasion) so want to get their hands on all that super money.

It won't be long before we are all required to hold "risk free" government bonds.
Just like they tried in Cyprus

Brown did in the UK in the late '90s

Last edited by Amazulu; Apr 5th 2013 at 4:49 am.
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 5:58 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Wol
....'cos I can't.
The more money you have, the more you can pay bottom feeding accountants to hide and shield you from tax. One of these mechanisms is to feed a lot of your earnings through 'super', which is zero taxed. Normal mortals don't have the opportunity to play such games. Therefore the government closes off one such tax loophole for the super rich, forcing them into other games, or, shock horror, having to pay their fair share of tax....
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by GarryP
The more money you have, the more you can pay bottom feeding accountants to hide and shield you from tax. One of these mechanisms is to feed a lot of your earnings through 'super', which is zero taxed. Normal mortals don't have the opportunity to play such games. Therefore the government closes off one such tax loophole for the super rich, forcing them into other games, or, shock horror, having to pay their fair share of tax....
>>Normal mortals don't have the opportunity to play such games.<<

Rubbish - of course they do. I did, and I don't claim any supernatural powers.

The problem isn't the way this was presented: it's about the superannuation/pensions paradigm. When you save for a pension you are in effect contracting with government for perhaps sixty years. Even a mortgage doesn't last that long. You should be able to rely on the rules not being altered at the whim of any government along the way.

At the very least the rules applying when anyone starts such a long term contract should be grandfathered in, whatever the "new" rules are. You can then make up your mind about whether you want to invest in your future or not.

Swan admits that the income to the treasury is minimal, therefore also admitting that this is pure, unreconstructed class warfare.

Who was it said: sooner or later every socialist government always runs out of other people's money?
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Wol
>>Normal mortals don't have the opportunity to play such games.<<

Rubbish - of course they do. I did, and I don't claim any supernatural powers.

The problem isn't the way this was presented: it's about the superannuation/pensions paradigm. When you save for a pension you are in effect contracting with government for perhaps sixty years. Even a mortgage doesn't last that long. You should be able to rely on the rules not being altered at the whim of any government along the way.

At the very least the rules applying when anyone starts such a long term contract should be grandfathered in, whatever the "new" rules are. You can then make up your mind about whether you want to invest in your future or not.

Swan admits that the income to the treasury is minimal, therefore also admitting that this is pure, unreconstructed class warfare.

Who was it said: sooner or later every socialist government always runs out of other people's money?

I find it interesting that Swan considers it perfectly acceptable to dip into people's retirement savings, yet won't hear of a super profits tax on the thieving banks making multiple billions of dollars year on year by not passing on full rate cuts.


S
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 7:59 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Wol
The problem isn't the way this was presented: it's about the superannuation/pensions paradigm. When you save for a pension you are in effect contracting with government for perhaps sixty years.
Point is, the point of pensions/super is so that people save for their old age themselves, rather than being a drain on the state. That's the aim, that's the contract, and that's why they don't pay tax on the adding or receiving from a fund.

However, if you have $100k in income from a super fund, you aren't the aim, you aren't the reason for the tax-free, rather you are exploiting it to reduce your tax bill.

Closing that loop hole is entirely in keeping with the aim - although some very rich people might be temporarily disadvantaged (till they find another loophole).

Originally Posted by Wol
Who was it said: sooner or later every socialist government always runs out of other people's money?
An idiot?

Who was it said "The rich will do anything for the poor but get off their backs" ?
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

>>However, if you have $100k in income from a super fund, you aren't the aim, you aren't the reason for the tax-free, rather you are exploiting it to reduce your tax bill.<<

So if you have say $75k, you are not "exploiting" the system?

An interesting concept: once again if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it's probably class envy.
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 8:13 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

no guarantee this will be passed into law.
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 8:36 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Yet more class war from comrade Wayne. I fail to see how it will raise billions of dollars to plug the holes in the governments finances.

It's the politics of envy - people have too much money so lets take it away.

Only 5 months to go now
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 10:23 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Wol
Who was it said: sooner or later every socialist government always runs out of other people's money?
One of the greatest leaders of the 20th century and one of the finest ever UK PMs - Margaret Thatcher
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 10:43 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by Amazulu
One of the greatest leaders of the 20th century and one of the finest ever UK PMs - Margaret Thatcher
You know when anyone mentions Hitler, they have lost the argument? It seems like Mrs T is a similar red rag (sorry, blue rag) to a bull- bound to stir up feelings.

Sits back and waits for the inevitable flack......
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by carolinephillips
You know when anyone mentions Hitler, they have lost the argument? It seems like Mrs T is a similar red rag (sorry, blue rag) to a bull- bound to stir up feelings.

Sits back and waits for the inevitable flack......
That's why he does it....just more of his immature posturing
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Old Apr 5th 2013, 11:22 am
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Default Re: Anyone make sense of Comrades Swan and Shorten's super "explanation?"

Originally Posted by carolinephillips
You know when anyone mentions Hitler, they have lost the argument? It seems like Mrs T is a similar red rag (sorry, blue rag) to a bull- bound to stir up feelings.

Sits back and waits for the inevitable flack......
Comparing Hitler to MT is a bit out there don't you think?

Kind of sad too
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