Pine Cone

Wanting to find out about the experiences of others (preferably with children) who have hopped the ditch from NZ to Oz. Don't care if this is from Poms who have lived in both countries or Kiwis. Comparison of living in both countries (within a urban environment), work culture, education system, quality of housing (not cost), ease of flying between the main cities for short weekend breaks etc etc.

We love NZ, but might have the opportunity to work in Oz for a couple of years. Know the salary would be much better, but assessing whether or not this would be an improvement in our quality of life.

Buzzy--Bee

We lived in NZ for 2 years and then returned to the UK. My wife is a Kiwi. We were looking for the lifestyle of NZ combined with the Financial realities of a westernised economy and we have found that and more in Melbourne, where we have been for 3 years. To answer your points specifically -

- wages are double NZ
- many things cost half of what they do in NZ
- there is (in Melbourne anyway) far more wordly wisdom than in NZ which tends to be very inward looking, thinking only the way things are done in NZ is the right way to do them.
- work culture very similar to UK here in Oz (I work in a large corporate)
- cannot help you with education comparison but experiences here so far are very positive.
- quality of housing - a shit old wooden shack in NZ and a shit old wooden shack in Oz are the same - the difference is here it's warmer and drier so you don't get so many of the issues with condensation and damp that you do in NZ.
- flying between cities is easy and cheap, there are multiple airlines.
- the lifestyle here is better than NZ, not least because the weather is much better and you have that much more money to do things with.

Hope that helps

Buzzy

thedons

We lived in Christchurch also it was a no brainer for us as we had lived in oz before, I think Bussy Bee has said it all.
Wages better
Things in general cheaper
and more sun
= happier Wife

mohogony

It seems half of New Zealand lives in OZ. Better weather better standard of living, much better economy in OZ,

rosscov1970

Although I've never lived in NZ, my children have been educated in the UK and here in OZ, I can offer you the professional opinions of 2 people who have worked in the education system for 35 years. My eldest brother and his wife are retired head teachers from the UK, who now work part-time for a company who recruit teachers from the Commonwealth countries, Canada, South Africa, NZ and Australia. Whenever they travel to Australia to conduct their interviews, they always visit and the conversation at some point turns to the quality of education and teachers in Australia. On their last visit I asked, having interviewed and worked with hundreds of teachers of different nationalities, in their opinion, which country produced the best teachers. They were in agreement that on the whole NZ produce the best.
That's not to suggest that there aren't excellent teachers here in Oz, as of course there are. I have 3 children here, all at different schools, 2 in the state system and 1 at a private secondary college. I am more than happy with the education they receive, the key of course is to choose wisely. The one thing that does frustrate me is the fact that we pay $13k for my eldest daughter to attend what I essentially perceive as a traditional UK sixth form college, with a few frills attached, they appear to have reinvented the wheel! While my good friend in Auckland receives for her daughter a very similar educational experience through the state system.

Geelong Gent

Double your income then convert it from annual to monthly

Then reduce your hours because I can tell you the Australians and Poms work half the hours I used to work in NZ.

Housing more expensive but as proportion of pay packet normal with international standards versus NZ

Come to Melbourne for sophisticated culture
Go to sydney for glitz and glam
Go to Brisbane for sun

Buzzy--Bee

who all leave NZ upon qualifying and become teachers in England or Australia.



Buzzy

rosscov1970

Yep, my brother goes round the world pinching the best and leaving us with the dregs.

GreenMan72

I'm a Kiwi who grew up in NZ, lived in England for 8 years (including 2 years back in NZ), and now are based permanently in Oz (Sydney).

In my opinion, the advantages Oz has over NZ are:
- much better climate, but not perfect (as many non Australians tend to believe before arriving here, myself included)
- wages considerably better (I doubled my pay compared to NZ)
- cost of living not too dissimilar, but was shocked at how expensive groceries have become in both countries
- much more to do (e.g. festivals, events, theatre etc)

The advantages NZ has over Oz are:
- think it is more of a nanny state here, especially on the roads (I have accumulated 4 demerits so far this year and $700 in fines - never had one incident in NZ or the UK!)
- the Southern Alps (I love the ski fields)

In summary, my wife and I love it here and will stay permanently The cost of housing in Sydney is astronomical though

JAJ

Have you become New Zealand citizens?

Spellbound

There are quite a few of us living here in Aus and on this site and I have answered this question a couple of times previously (search at the top).

We lived 4.5 years in Auckland NZ and now live on the Gold Coast (1.5yrs)

When we went to NZ we had a 13yr old and 15yr old. Our 15yr returned to the UK just before her 18th birthday due to the education system in NZ which she didn't like and the 13yr lives in Aus with us and is 19yrs old now. Our daughter here, thought that the youngsters in NZ were 'nicer' than the UK kids in general but prefers the Aussie youngsters who are much more outgoing (her opinion). Cant help with small kid stuff, except to say that my daughter loves her Aussie/gold coast lifestyle and refers to NZ as one giant farm! (her opinion again)

We applied for permanent residency of Australia (175 visa) whilst still living in NZ, and moved over once we got it. We have IRRV for NZ, although we would never go back, and could have applied for NZ citizenship as we had lived there long enough but decided to spend our money on Aus PR as it gave us more long term security.

We are financially better off here in Aus - although we don't earn double!!- a slight exaggeration depends on what you do I suppose - but we do pay less taxes, so have much more disposable income. Our rent is cheaper, same size housing to NZ. The cost of living is slightly cheaper and we have the fantastic weather all year round to enjoy the things we liked doing in NZ such as fishing and camping.

We much preferred NZ to the UK but Australia ticks a few more 'like' boxes so we are much better off all round, so definitely a better quality of life for us. But as always - its horses for courses!

Pine Cone

No we don't have Kiwi passports. Only been here 3 years, but we do have our indefinite returning resident visas so we can return here if we wish.

This isn't a problem for us getting into Oz either because it seems we have enough points to qualify for a number of different Oz permanent visas (processing time permitting) or could get a 457 visa easily enough.

JAJ

Assuming the government doesn't impose an expiry date on NZ IRRVs. Be aware that if you have a child born in Australia it won't be an NZ citizen or hold any NZ immigration status. (won't be an Australian citizen either if you're not permanent residents).

Also be aware that if you later on return to NZ with your RRV, the 5 year clock for NZ citizenship starts again from zero.


Have you kept up to date with the developments on Australian points tested visas?

There are permanent employer sponsored migrant visas that may suit you. Swapping permanent status in NZ for a 457 status in Australia may not be a good bargain.

Pine Cone

This is something we are considering along with other factors If we stayed long enough in Oz to get citizenship there instead, this would still allow us full access to NZ. They are unlikely to removed this entitlement as NZ desparately needs skilled workers to fill the brain drain gaps left in the workforce.

Not quite true...


'Been present in New Zealand;

* for at least 1,350 days with a Permanent Resident Permit issued by Immigration New Zealand during the 5 years immediately before you make your application; and
* for at least 240 days with a Permanent Resident Permit issued by Immigration New Zealand in each of those 5 years'


Although you are quite right in that after an absence of 8 months (divided into two 4 months absences over the last 2 years), it would be difficult to fulfill these requirements since they last changed the rules about being present in NZ for a certain length of time, and we would effectively start from scratch again.


At present we seem to have 115 points, assuming we took the automatic 15 points for English Language without sitting the IELTS to get the full 25 points. So options would either be to get a Employer or State Sponsored visa as we have over 100 points, or work for a year on a 457 visa and then we would have over 140 points to apply for the Independent Skilled Migrant Visa. We've already checked and OH's profession is listed in the SOL lists for all states so it may be that the safetest option is to get a sponsored visa. The potential job opportunity is either Melbourne or Sydney so we are in the process of researching both.

JAJ

Sigh.

Employer sponsored migrant visas are not points tested (there are other requirements).

As for points tested migration, lots of changes recently. Read, absorb, etc.
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/gener.../whats-new.htm