PeteY

This is the best post i have seen you yet make Mr Wilf. Its bang on with what i experienced when i was in oz, albeit just for 8 months. I was looking for some casual work and the best way i found of getting that work was to go round to the vinyards, and fruit places and just chat and enquire about work.

The other job i got was in a paper mill....and i got that job by talking to a complete stranger in a pub. We started off chatting about fishing....eventually went on to what i was hoping to do over there and in the end he said he would try and get me work at the mill he worked at.

I applied for loads of jobs through papers and aussie agencies to no avail...

Wilf

I remember you are in geology I think you said Pete. Well, you will find this approach will work even for that sort of thing. I once was doing some work for a bloke who taught law at a university here (I have had all sorts of posh and clever customers in my time and none of them could put up a shelf) and I was telling him about my son who wanted some work experience doing research at a university before he went off to the UK. I like to chat more than work and so did he and we had a good yarn and he said to me that he would ask one of his colleagues in the science bit of the university about a position he had heard was coming up but had yet to be advertised. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my son learnt everyhting he knows about charm from his father, but despite that, he got the job anyway. He still hates me to remind him that I got him his first job now. Anyway, I think this proves (or at least indicates) that no matter how "educated" the job, you can talk your way in anywhere, and that is what works in Oz more than anything else.

My son is an ozzie so that must have helped, but I don't think he even had quite the right experience they were looking for and so I stick to my belief that everyone gets good jobs here through word of mouth. The only way a new pommie immo can get in on this is by introducing themselves and pushing their way in. I would say to Grubelice that he/she should even say to him/herself that he/she is going to get such and such a job whether they want him/her to have it or not and just do not take no for an answer. If they knock him/her back and he/she doesn't get an interview for the job, phone them up and say could he/she just be one extra one to be seen because this is just what he/she wants and he/she is ideal for it and she came to Oz on his/her own and who could resist that? Not an Ozzie that's for sure. If they still do resist it, **** them and try the next one with the same approach. Within two weeks he/she will be in work.

However, this does not contradict what I said about level playing fields and not believing in this "life is what you make it" rubbish. I have seen too many good people go to waste because of wrong skin colour, disability, strong foreign accent, not enough self confidence, bad luck, and illness to believe that sort of rubbish and anyone my age who does believe it has lead a very sheltered life and has not seen much.

grubelice

Thank you Mr Wilf for your very kind words and advice. I will heed the advice and start knocking on a few doors. I really appreciate what you have said. I am normally a fairly confident person but strange surroundings and the different ethic/etiquette and even different words for things can sometimes undermine your confidence. I agree with you that there is definitely a need to be more pushy. I guess it is important not to worry about making a fool of yourself as no-one here knows me anyway.

Kind regards

Elaine

welshpom

Dorothy, you're not in Kansas any more.

... time to update your profile Elaine !.

chippy

Wilfo, you have made some good points here, with the fundamentals of what you are saying being correct in my opinion.

What baffles me on your take on almost any given subject, it seems, is that you seem to think that scenarios such as the one you have described here are confined to Aus. How can you be so insular?

For goodness sake, don't you realise this sort of thing goes on the world over. Most business today goes on at the golf course(not that I play the game), or the pub. There is no honour among thieves, and most businessmen are only one step down.

I recently lost a contract for the carpentry work on eighty-odd houses. Why? Because I refused to give a fat bung to one of the string-pullers. It was never said, but I know that is the reason. One of the other trades has been getting him Man United home game tickets for over a year, but someone else comes along offering a villa in Spain, so the Man United gets gets outed. Almost a poetic justice in that I think.

I will never go down this road, I would rather be recognised for my work, which I think leads to a more enduring creditibility. There are honourable people out there, but with the dog-eat-dog attitude of today they are hard to find.

Anyway I'm rambling. My point is Aus does'nt have a monopoly on this type of thing.

PeteY

Actually Chip, it IS different out there. Over here, your reference to the business on the golf course does hold true at the higher levels, but not so for people on lower grades. If you're after a job here you go to an agency, or you look in the paper.

Think of it like this.....here you don't so much hunt for a job, as much as peruse whats available and apply for what you feel you would enjoy, and what would be financially viable. This is the case in London anyway. The reason for this is the huge number of vacancies over here. I've never been out of work for example, yet i've worked for 6 different companies (I've only been working for 5 years). Thats not because i keep getting the sack, but because there are so many jobs available you tend to always be finding somthing a bit better than what your doing...

Over there, you actually have to go out and find work. Its far more speculative; more cold calling; more canvassing around town for work. The jobs ARE there, they are just harder to find, and hence there is more competition. Jobs go more by word of mouth etc.

You could say that i don't know what im on about i've only been there for 8 months, but its what my father in law said, my brother inlaws, and most other people i chatted to over there.

Take my wifes experience as an example. Her last job in oz, her uncle found for her. He found out about the job from his driving partner (hes a copper). She comes over here and she has work through an agency (perm, not temp), in a good job 3 days after starting looking for work.

PeteY

I should have also added that what i just said is more for office/professional type work. Don't know if it holds true for trades etc....

Wilf

I can see the point you are making Chippy and it is a fair one. I have to bow to greater knowledge to some extent on this one because I only did my apprenticeship in the UK and got that very easily - "Do you need an apprentice?" was my application form and CV as far as I can remember, but I said it in a lovely bold text with italics and underlining so maybe that is why I got it so easy.

However, a bit like Pete knows family here, I know family there (even foreigners like my kids) and I have to say that Pete has taken the words out of my mouth. I really do think it is different. When you are at the level of 80 house developments or oil pipelines through Iraq, I am sure that you are right and it is the same the world over, but in Oz you need to know someone in the right place to get a job typing numbers into a computer all day let alone something decent and interesting.

I have seen very well educated people here with top pass university degrees from Oxford and London universities, masters degrees and bachelors degrees, and work experience in London take over a year to get a lousy little job doing filing for an insurance firm (which they got in the end by walking the streets and knocking on doors after 1 year of good paper applications like you do in civilised countries) and another one who gave up and went home after 10 months of wasted time trying to get a start and that was in Sydney. The person who went home, after all that time unemployed, went back depressed and with unemployment on their record. She had to say that she had been on a long holiday sort of thing. You know how long it took her to get a job that she liked in London using CV and letter in the normal way? Three weeks from getting off at Heathrow to being told she had it.

I could only go as far with you as to say that in countries like the UK I think you get trade jobs by knocking on doors and through mates. Here it is ALL jobs even if you are really well educated. In that sense, the Ozzies are right and they have made Oz more equal because No-ONE can get jobs here.

You have a good attitude and seem clever but I really do think that you will be surprised just how hard it can be for people to get jobs here - even future Ozzies like your kids may be forced (not choose to, forced) to leave for a decent job beyond shelf stacking and such like. I know a young bloke here who is a great clever kid and he cannot even get an apprenticeship because (I think) everyone is so tight now and do not even want to pay a kid to train up because for the same kid's money they can probably get a new pom immo. This is my take on the "there are so many opportunities in Oz" bull: the fact is that there are not, but you are forced to start on your own even if you just end up doing three jobs each of which just gets you pocket money because it is so hard to get a decent job with a company or whatever. Look at the number of people on this forum who have had to work in their old man's business instead of doing the same profession they used to. How many people on this forum have a story that says "I may have started out as a shelf stacker or cleaner here but now I am a ......" where the "......" is anything other than working for themselves? Being forced to work for yourself is not opportunity. Where I come from (London), finding there is not enough work to be had and you are forced to mow lawns for a living for a kids pocket money income when you used to be a solicitor is known as shit, not opportunity.

It is hard to hear, but most people who start as a cleaner here will carry on as a cleaner here for longer than they may think. Despite good qualifications, I do not know people who springboarded from cleaning to office work here even if they did that sort of thing before. And before anyone jumps on my back for talking about cleaners, I am not going to discuss my personal background here in any detail, as I have said before, but my closest family members were cleaners and so I do not suffer from the idea that it is a wonderful career like those who hire them and those who know nothing about it seem to think.

Wilf

That is exactly right - who cares how you seem? Anyway, no-one ever got knocked for being keen and that is how it would look.

Don't take no for an answer next time you get a knock back and ring them up (not the personnel people but the person who is in charge of what you want to do) and ask to be one extra to be seen and say how perfect you are for the job and how brave you are for coming over on your own and so on, in a cheeky way, and they may well see you. If they don't, say have you got anything else coming up for me? If that is no good, ring up the top man/woman instead of the personnel people and ask to come and talk to someone. See yourself like you are a one woman band business and that you are just coming to look around, not just for a job. You see what I mean I think. Force them to see you (but on their level, by being all pally) and then you are in. I mean literally they may say "No, sorry, nothing more at the moment" and then you say "Can I come and see you? I want to show you in person what I can do", and so on. They may think you are odd but they will also see you are keen - everyone in Oz knows how hard it is to get good jobs now and so it will not seem so odd anyway.

It is not at all easy to do all this and I do not pretend that it is, but it is the only way for a new pom immo to get a good job here, so if you want something decent then it is just something you have to take a deep breath and do. I will guess that if you take this "friendly but forceful" approach for the next five job applications, even if it is hard to do, you will get one. You can look at it like you are going to have a laugh by pretending to be someone who doesn't give a toss what they think for a few weeks, like you are playing a part. That will be long enough. There is nothing wrong with you and what you have been doing so far to get a job and I bet it would have worked like a charm in London but you are just not speaking the Ozzies' language yet, that is all. Anyway, I will not go on any more. You do not need anyone's help really.

All the best and good luck. I hope you will post on here when you get a job and I would say don't go for stuff you don't want, go for your favourite. You may get stuck with it if you take a job you don't want just to look willing, so go for your first choice.

Megalania

Wilf,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the ropes to the new chums. Every job I ever had was by the processes you describe.

Aus employers want capable, confident & motivated employees Pom or otherwise. Last thing they want is whinging shrinking violets who might not stay the course and can not pull their weight.

chippy

Us new chums need all the help we can get Megalamia. BTW, figured out Port Arthur yet, or are you still concentrating on the Jackenory auditions?

Megalania

Look, Salvadorian butterflies hold no mysteries for me but of CIA internals divinations have surely got me foxed.

chippy

Salvadorian butterflies? Where does this come from Megamaniac?

Megalania

Your chips scudding off?

El Salvador

chippy

Lets keep this on track Megamania

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