Techno Freak

Hi all,

Briefly, my partners parents are UK born NZ citizens, (obtained after 2001).

They currently reside in NZ and receiver a full NZ state pension.

They want to move to Australia but nobody in NZ or Centrelink here can categorically say what pension they would end up with in Australia.

From what I have read it could be drastically less than the NZ one.

If anyone here is an older NZ citizen that has moved to Australia and was in receipt of an NZ pension, would you mind saying hi on the thread so I can ask you a few questions?

More details here (the long winded version):-

http://britishexpats.com/forum/immig.../#post11439736

I'm worried that they might move here and end up with very little income if their NZ pension becomes a means tested Australian pension and they subsequently lose the NZ payment.

Thanks.

Bermudashorts

Just to continue from your other test, I have read a bit more and it does seem pretty clear, that if they don't qualify for an Australian pension, the NZ one will also stop.

So what you need to do is look up the income and assets test for the Australian pension and see how they fare. I think the investment property will either preclude them completely or have a significant impact.

Age Pension

Kiwipaul

Have a look at this documant
http://www.humanservices.gov.au/spw/...014-1302en.pdf

This seems to be the important bit

To qualify under the agreement, you need to meet the following basic requirements*:
Age Pension
You may be able to get Age Pension if:
 you are at least 65 years of age, and
 the total period of time you have lived in Australia and/or your periods of Working Age
Residence in New Zealand add up to more than 10 years.

Techno Freak

I don't think qualifying is the issues, from what Ive read, if you are already getting an NZ pension then you'd qualify for an Australian one.

Its the means testing that is confusing, and it's effect on the NZ portion of the pension.

Cheers.

Bermudashorts

I don't know how you have concluded that, I think you are wrong. The individual needs to apply for the Australian pension and see if they qualify, getting the NZ pension certainly does not come into qualifying for the Australian pension. It is the Australia asset and income test that matters. Qualifying for it seems very much the issue to me, considering their investment property.

I also do not know what you are confused about. If they do not qualify for the Australian pension, because of the asset and income test, then the NZ pension will stop. It is perfectly clear if you read the official NZ website as I did yesterday. I think maybe you just don't want to believe it...?

Techno Freak

Why the attitude?

I have concluded that based on a mountain of reading over the last few days. This link provides a bit more info on it...

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-dep...ed-questions#6

Yes, I agree, you do not automatically get an Austrian pensions if you have an NZ one, but the fact you have an NZ one means you have met the criteria for the NZ one, which from what I read due to the reciprocal agreement with Australia would generally mean you would be entitles to apply and receive an Australian one.

Once you apply for the Australian one THAT one is means tested and takes into account the NZ one, read the paragraph regarding how you are effective receiving two pensions as an NZ living in Aus. The NZ portion is reduced so that the total of the NZ plus the Australian pensions is no more than you would received had you always been an Australian resident and claimed only an Australian pension.

That is the confusing bit. I completely agree that the pension if received in Australia and via the reciprical agreement should be at the rate an Australian would received it, (i.e means tested, and I have done the sums we're not talking huge assets here.

I'm not sure how else I can try and explain the paradox, here's another go real figures:-

A retired NZ citizen drawing an NZ pension in NZ of $659 (when converted to AUD) per fortnight, not means tested.

Move to Aus and successfully apply for Australian pension.

Maximum Australian Pension for the same person is $854 AUD before means testing

If that person had no assets or income the Australian pension would be made up of $659 paid by NZ and topped up to $854 by Australia.

Now, income from property, (note that the value of the property has very little affect on the outcome, but the income from it does and the lower of the calculations is used). The annual income works out at $20k AUD per year, The NZ pension works out at $17,134 k per year, BOTH of which as I understand it would count in the means test.

The Aus Age pension is reduced by 50c in the dollar for ever dollar of income 'earned' over $160 per fortnight.

Therefore, the income of rent plus NZ pension is $37,134 = $1428 per fortnight. Less $160 threshold = $1268 times by the reduction 0.5c/$1 = $634

So, the net means tested Australian pension would reduce to $220, a huge difference.

THIS IS THE CONFUSING BIT:-

The Australian means tested pension comes out at $220 when including the NZ payment of $659 as part of the means test. You would therefore assume, as per the link above, that the total you would received would be $659 plus $220 = $879 as the $659 has been included in the means test as income. However, then capped at $854 based on the link that says capped at what you would receive had you always been in Australia.

What the government say though, is that an aged pension paid to a New Zealander residing in Australia CANNOT be more than they would receive had they always been an Australian.

Now, if you take that literally, it would be capped at the means tested amount of $220 and as such, the NZ pension would then stop and you'd only receive the Australian portion of $220 - BUT, the $220 was calculated BECAUSE of the receipt of the NZ payment, however, if that is then stopped it should be included in the income test because it's no longer income...see what I mean? the NZ stream is counted as income to make the assessment, but ythen not actualy paid out at the end. That's the bit I'm trying to get clarity on.

Cheers.

Bermudashorts

Are you kidding me?

I have spent well over an hour of my time reading up this for you and trying to help you with the interpretation. Just for you and for no other reason. So don't start that, I have no attitude or personal interest in this debate.

I could have predicted that you would soon shoot the messenger though, I could tell because you are just refusing to believe what is set out in front of you because it isn't what you want to see.

I will now leave you to your reading. Try this one, scroll down halfway and read from "Receiving a benefit or pension in Australia".

Social security agreement with Australia - Work and Income

Note this bit in particular, which I have told you about on several posts now.

I will not be responding to any further of your posts.

annier

You're right Bermudashorts, we couldn't get our NZ pension until we qualified for the Australian one, and as soon as we qualified we got the NZ one.

Techno Freak

The part I was referring to was "It is perfectly clear if you read the official NZ website as I did yesterday. I think maybe you just don't want to believe it...?
"

That's the problem, (going round in circls now), it is not perfectly clear on any of the official websites, hence my posts requesting feedback from people that really know this stuff, or have been through it. It's not a matter of me "not wanting to believe it", I couldn't care either way what the outcome is, what I do care about is finding out what the actual situation is before they commit to another expensive move without categorically being able to find out what the financial outcome would be. That outcome is far from clear based on the potential catch-22 as outlined in my last post regarding the means testing, and the best I can ascertain so far is that you just have to do it and see what happens, which may be a very costly mistake, or it may end up fine, the point it you don't seem to be able to find out until you've done it by which time it's too blummin late.

I do appreciate your time, honestly, and am grateful for the input you have put into this thread but I don't respond well to comments like maybe "I don't want to believe it??"

Cheers.