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-   -   To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first... (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/all-those-australia-itus-check-out-new-zealand-first-342472/)

C&R Dec 13th 2005 1:38 am

To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 
This is for those who have a yearning to live in Oz, who think its the best country in the world, and how nothing can be better then getting that visa granted and moving down under...

I was in Australia staying at my Dads recently, attempting to put together the Oz visa application that never got submitted because of a delay with Vetassess and the lack of their golden ticket. I knew a friend who lived in New Zealand, and him and his wife invited me to stay with them. So off I went, I travelled from Wellington to Napier, then from Napier to Palmerston North, then onto New Plymouth and back to Wellington.

What I noticed: Firstly, I would like to add, New Zealand people are a hell of a lot less brash and arrogant then Ozzies [can be..] they speak quieter, ie - the tv adverts don't shout at you like they do in Oz. I am not knocking Ozzies, but I have been there enough times to grant my own opinion on certain character traits. The scenery in New Zealand is outstanding, one minute you could be in Scotland, then Switzerland, then Australia along the coast, then back to the Lake District. I kid you not, it is amazing. People tend to go on about how friendly Australians are, well from my experience New Zealanders are genuinely friendly, and are much much more laid back.

Throughout my trip, I kept asking myself why am I and my boyfriend going through the stress of applying to live in Australia, it is not the perfect place it is made out to be after all, we spent a year there, and know the downfalls of living there, particulary with employment issues. I am sure New Zealand has its faults too, but coming from the UK, I don't know, I tended to warm to the place more then Australia, there is a certain kinship I think British people have towards New Zealand, probably due to the greeness of the place - I cannot put my finger on it. There are doubts in my head about living in Oz now, but thats something we have to work out ourselves.

But if you get the opportunity to visit New Zealand,then I would highly recommend it, before you make the big move and expense to move to Australia.

diddy Dec 13th 2005 1:45 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 
Horses for courses.....

bondipom Dec 13th 2005 1:49 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 
No hobits, orks or other weird middle earth dwellers here.

C&R Dec 13th 2005 1:51 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by diddy
Horses for courses.....

I am aware alot of people are not going to like what I wrote, but its a comparison. Had I not gone to NZ, then I would still think the same as everyone else on this forum. I just think people should be aware that Australia is not the perfect place it is made out to be, its difficult to live there, particulary the work situation. Sometimes things need to be said, rather then hiding behind rose tinted glasses.

Amazulu Dec 13th 2005 1:54 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
This is for those who have a yearning to live in Oz, who think its the best country in the world, and how nothing can be better then getting that visa granted and moving down under...

I was in Australia staying at my Dads recently, attempting to put together the Oz visa application that never got submitted because of a delay with Vetassess and the lack of their golden ticket. I knew a friend who lived in New Zealand, and him and his wife invited me to stay with them. So off I went, I travelled from Wellington to Napier, then from Napier to Palmerston North, then onto New Plymouth and back to Wellington.

What I noticed: Firstly, I would like to add, New Zealand people are a hell of a lot less brash and arrogant then Ozzies [can be..] they speak quieter, ie - the tv adverts don't shout at you like they do in Oz. I am not knocking Ozzies, but I have been there enough times to grant my own opinion on certain character traits. The scenery in New Zealand is outstanding, one minute you could be in Scotland, then Switzerland, then Australia along the coast, then back to the Lake District. I kid you not, it is amazing. People tend to go on about how friendly Australians are, well from my experience New Zealanders are genuinely friendly, and are much much more laid back.

Throughout my trip, I kept asking myself why am I and my boyfriend going through the stress of applying to live in Australia, it is not the perfect place it is made out to be after all, we spent a year there, and know the downfalls of living there, particulary with employment issues. I am sure New Zealand has its faults too, but coming from the UK, I don't know, I tended to warm to the place more then Australia, there is a certain kinship I think British people have towards New Zealand, probably due to the greeness of the place - I cannot put my finger on it. There are doubts in my head about living in Oz now, but thats something we have to work out ourselves.

But if you get the opportunity to visit New Zealand,then I would highly recommend it, before you make the big move and expense to move to Australia.

Ask yourself why so many Kiwis are moving to Australia, about 650/week at the moment. There are over 100000 in Perth apparently. I think you'll find the answer is money, I think it is harder to make a decent living in NZ. NZ has all the social problems of the UK & Australia, some better, some worse.

NZ is a great place to visit, I know I'll be going back, but not to live.

bondipom Dec 13th 2005 1:54 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
I am aware alot of people are not going to like what I wrote, but its a comparison. Had I not gone to NZ, then I would still think the same as everyone else on this forum. I just think people should be aware that Australia is not the perfect place it is made out to be, its difficult to live there, particulary the work situation. Sometimes things need to be said, rather then hiding behind rose tinted glasses.

Are you saying NZ has a better work situation?

Linda Lushardi Dec 13th 2005 1:57 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 
I' married to a NZer and lived there for quite some time. Visiting is a damn site different to living there.
For me (and my husband) Australia beats it hands down. Yes, its a beautiful place and i reccomend anyone going for a holiday as its beautiful to look at, but living there has its own set of real problems

As for brashness of people. I hope you dont bump into my sister in law... :scared:

C&R Dec 13th 2005 1:58 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by bondipom
Are you saying NZ has a better work situation?

I have no experience about the work situation in NZ, I only about how hard it was to live and work in Australia, and what my boyfriend who is a highly qualified engineer had to put up with, and also what my Father has to put up with too. But having said that I was advised there was more scope in NZ for qualified engineers then there is in Australia, this is the advice from someone who lives there.

C&R Dec 13th 2005 1:59 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Linda Lushardi
I' married to a NZer and lived there for quite some time. Visiting is a damn site different to living there.
For me (and my husband) Australia beats it hands down. Yes, its a beautiful place and i reccomend anyone going for a holiday as its beautiful to look at, but living there has its own set of real problems

As for brashness of people. I hope you dont bump into my sister in law... :scared:

This is it, an even balance. Living and working in Oz, and visiting New Zealand on holidays. Perfect combination. But for me personally, I can see myself and my boyfriend being far happier living in NZ then Australia. Its just my personal opinion.

Linda Lushardi Dec 13th 2005 2:01 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
This is it, an even balance. Living and working in Oz, and visiting New Zealand on holidays. Perfect combination. But for me personally, I can see myself and my boyfriend being far happier living in NZ then Australia. Its just my personal opinion.


Good luck to you, but i just hated it after 6mths.

C&R Dec 13th 2005 2:02 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Linda Lushardi
Good luck to you, but i just hated it after 6mths.

Why did you hate it? Had you lived in Australia before hand, or did you go to Australia after New Zealand?

bondipom Dec 13th 2005 2:10 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
I have no experience about the work situation in NZ, I only about how hard it was to live and work in Australia, and what my boyfriend who is a highly qualified engineer had to put up with, and also what my Father has to put up with too. But having said that I was advised there was more scope in NZ for qualified engineers then there is in Australia, this is the advice from someone who lives there.

Must be a specialised area of engineering. The resources boom has created a huge demand for engineers here. Most professions pay less well in NZ and most of those opportunities are limited to Auckland which is a rainy whole abuot as attractive as Birmingham.

diddy Dec 13th 2005 2:10 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
I am aware alot of people are not going to like what I wrote, but its a comparison. Had I not gone to NZ, then I would still think the same as everyone else on this forum. I just think people should be aware that Australia is not the perfect place it is made out to be, its difficult to live there, particulary the work situation. Sometimes things need to be said, rather then hiding behind rose tinted glasses.


You must be new to the site as the rose tinted glasses issue is probably discussed more than anything else on here. Nothing you wrote is new, so like I said 'horses for courses'.

C&R Dec 13th 2005 2:13 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by diddy
You must be new to the site as the rose tinted glasses issue is probably discussed more than anything else on here. Nothing you wrote is new, so like I said 'horses for courses'.

I am not new to the site. I just don't get the opportunity to check out this forum that often. But like I said, I am just writing about the comparison, thats all.

Linda Lushardi Dec 13th 2005 2:16 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
Why did you hate it? Had you lived in Australia before hand, or did you go to Australia after New Zealand?


No i had never been to Australia before coming here, but i had never been to NZ either, and the only reason i went there in the first place was because i married a kiwi. He had been away from there for 12yrs working all over the world and wanted to go back and spend some time there.
After being way for so long he was VERY shocked at how unhappy he was living there after experiencing living in other places. He had lived in America, several places across Eurpe including the UK and he admitted that NZ was just too isolated and in some ways "backward" in its approach to certain things. Not sayng the people themselves are.. far from it, very intelligent.
For me, i just couldnt adapt to such a culture change. I come from a big city and found it positively painful having to go to bed at 9pm as theres sod all to do nd nwhere to go as it shuts down. The lack of choice in shopping. The underlying racial tensions between pakeha and maori got extremely tiresome. The standard of housing is appaulling and i mean REALLY appaulling! Wages are low in comparison to other places, and lastly, although on the surface kiwis come across as very friendly people (ok most are i married one after all..lol) there is a definite undercurrent there and a fair percentage small town small minded people too. I think thats what me and my husband found the worst of all.
Of course all this is just my experience and there'll no doubt be others come on here saying i'm talking crap but thats what we experienced. You may not and see it differently so dont take my word or anyone elses you need to do it for yourself
As i said before good luck to you.

C&R Dec 13th 2005 2:24 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Linda Lushardi
No i had never been to Australia before coming here, but i had never been to NZ either, and the only reason i went there in the first place was because i married a kiwi. He had been away from there for 12yrs working all over the world and wanted to go back and spend some time there.
After being way for so long he was VERY shocked at how unhappy he was living there after experiencing living in other places. He had lived in America, several places across Eurpe including the UK and he admitted that NZ was just too isolated and in some ways "backward" in its approach to certain things. Not sayng the people themselves are.. far from it, very intelligent.
For me, i just couldnt adapt to such a culture change. I come from a big city and found it positively painful having to go to bed at 9pm as theres sod all to do nd nwhere to go as it shuts down. The lack of choice in shopping. The underlying racial tensions between pakeha and maori got extremely tiresome. The standard of housing is appaulling and i mean REALLY appaulling! Wages are low in comparison to other places, and lastly, although on the surface kiwis come across as very friendly people (ok most are i married one after all..lol) there is a definite undercurrent there and a fair percentage small town small minded people too. I think thats what me and my husband found the worst of all.
Of course all this is just my experience and there'll no doubt be others come on here saying i'm talking crap but thats what we experienced. You may not and see it differently so dont take my word or anyone elses you need to do it for yourself
As i said before good luck to you.

Thank you - this is what I needed to hear. Your experience is exactly the same as what my friends who live in NZ are going through right now, after 7 years of living in China they have just moved back. I just felt that having lived in Oz before, was NZ the place we should move to next, or not? Thanks again, you have answered some important questions.

Amazulu Dec 13th 2005 2:35 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
I have no experience about the work situation in NZ, I only about how hard it was to live and work in Australia, and what my boyfriend who is a highly qualified engineer had to put up with, and also what my Father has to put up with too. But having said that I was advised there was more scope in NZ for qualified engineers then there is in Australia, this is the advice from someone who lives there.

That person does not know what they are talking about. The job market for engineering in Perth is white hot at the moment & there are no signs that this situation is going to change any time soon. I actually reckon Perth is one of the best places in the world for engineers at this moment. If you are happy earning NZD60k (if you are lucky) rather than AUD120k+ then go for NZ.

Engineers from all over the world are coming to Perth. I don't think they are flocking to NZ instead.

mumomonty Dec 13th 2005 2:56 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Amazulu
That person does not know what they are talking about. The job market for engineering in Perth is white hot at the moment & there are no signs that this situation is going to change any time soon. I actually reckon Perth is one of the best places in the world for engineers at this moment. If you are happy earning NZD60k (if you are lucky) rather than AUD120k+ then go for NZ.

Engineers from all over the world are coming to Perth. I don't think they are flocking to NZ instead.

Hey Claire, It's definitely horses for courses.

I have lived in both and can honestly say on 100k IT salary it don't go very far in NZ. In Aus 2 years back 85k went a long way. Also, the houses here are terribly damp etc. in winter if you're not in the right one and the majority are not good.
So my advice is read the NZ expats website on this forum. Lots of doom and gloom on there. I do moan myself, but I try to see both sides. The main worry expats seem to have is lack of central heating, lack of double glazing and the biggest of all - mainly if they are on 70k or less or have a family is lack of money.

I'm in NZ at the mo, but probably return within 3 years and we do like it here but it's just the cost of living really and the fact that you seem to get one bill after another. The race thing is present but then look at the riots in Sydney.!!!!

We've met lovely people here and in Aus too.

Princess Leia Dec 13th 2005 5:09 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 
I'm married to a Kiwi too and we live in Australia, although we visit NZ fairly often for holidays. My husband prefers Australia because of the better work situation, better wages and more variety of life. He too has lived in London and would have found NZ difficult to return to, so Sydney was a good compromise. I myself prefer Australia also as NZ was too damp, quiet and inward looking for me, however I do admire their lack of materialism.

I think all nationalities have their quirks. Aussies are more outgoing and louder but in a way that leads to more friendliness and openness, which is something you appreciate when you are settling in a new country for the first time. NZers are more reserved but can be quite parochial, going to quite extreme lengths to explain why NZ is better than everywhere else. They do strike me as a rather insecure nation.

I agree with the other posters. It really depends on you. If you both really like NZ and you can make a good wage there then it sounds like it would be great for you. I know people in NZ who have come there from other countries (including Australia!) and love it.

Princess Leia

ShozInOz Dec 13th 2005 6:11 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
This is for those who have a yearning to live in Oz, who think its the best country in the world, and how nothing can be better then getting that visa granted and moving down under...

I was in Australia staying at my Dads recently, attempting to put together the Oz visa application that never got submitted because of a delay with Vetassess and the lack of their golden ticket. I knew a friend who lived in New Zealand, and him and his wife invited me to stay with them. So off I went, I travelled from Wellington to Napier, then from Napier to Palmerston North, then onto New Plymouth and back to Wellington.

What I noticed: Firstly, I would like to add, New Zealand people are a hell of a lot less brash and arrogant then Ozzies [can be..] they speak quieter, ie - the tv adverts don't shout at you like they do in Oz. I am not knocking Ozzies, but I have been there enough times to grant my own opinion on certain character traits. The scenery in New Zealand is outstanding, one minute you could be in Scotland, then Switzerland, then Australia along the coast, then back to the Lake District. I kid you not, it is amazing. People tend to go on about how friendly Australians are, well from my experience New Zealanders are genuinely friendly, and are much much more laid back.

Throughout my trip, I kept asking myself why am I and my boyfriend going through the stress of applying to live in Australia, it is not the perfect place it is made out to be after all, we spent a year there, and know the downfalls of living there, particulary with employment issues. I am sure New Zealand has its faults too, but coming from the UK, I don't know, I tended to warm to the place more then Australia, there is a certain kinship I think British people have towards New Zealand, probably due to the greeness of the place - I cannot put my finger on it. There are doubts in my head about living in Oz now, but thats something we have to work out ourselves.

But if you get the opportunity to visit New Zealand,then I would highly recommend it, before you make the big move and expense to move to Australia.

How one Aussie summed it up for me was "Nice place to visit...wouldn't want to live there". Bit like my head, I thought. Gorgeous country, great people. They have more of a kinship with Brits, and have more British traits. But when I visited I thought, "couldn't live here". Just a feeling. It was like going back in time. It felt even more remote that Oz, and indeed it is.

It is just sooooo small, in terms of people, opportunities, etc. If you are in a spacialised career, like me, then NZ is often the end of your career I'm afraid. Time spent there just stops the clock. Australia is not far off as people do disappear offf the professional radar here too in my business, but it is some way ahead of NZ.

Note that the NZ forum is quite negative, and NZ struggles to keep its people.

Welshie Dec 13th 2005 8:41 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
This is for those who have a yearning to live in Oz, who think its the best country in the world, and how nothing can be better then getting that visa granted and moving down under...

I was in Australia staying at my Dads recently, attempting to put together the Oz visa application that never got submitted because of a delay with Vetassess and the lack of their golden ticket. I knew a friend who lived in New Zealand, and him and his wife invited me to stay with them. So off I went, I travelled from Wellington to Napier, then from Napier to Palmerston North, then onto New Plymouth and back to Wellington.

What I noticed: Firstly, I would like to add, New Zealand people are a hell of a lot less brash and arrogant then Ozzies [can be..] they speak quieter, ie - the tv adverts don't shout at you like they do in Oz. I am not knocking Ozzies, but I have been there enough times to grant my own opinion on certain character traits. The scenery in New Zealand is outstanding, one minute you could be in Scotland, then Switzerland, then Australia along the coast, then back to the Lake District. I kid you not, it is amazing. People tend to go on about how friendly Australians are, well from my experience New Zealanders are genuinely friendly, and are much much more laid back.

Throughout my trip, I kept asking myself why am I and my boyfriend going through the stress of applying to live in Australia, it is not the perfect place it is made out to be after all, we spent a year there, and know the downfalls of living there, particulary with employment issues. I am sure New Zealand has its faults too, but coming from the UK, I don't know, I tended to warm to the place more then Australia, there is a certain kinship I think British people have towards New Zealand, probably due to the greeness of the place - I cannot put my finger on it. There are doubts in my head about living in Oz now, but thats something we have to work out ourselves.

But if you get the opportunity to visit New Zealand,then I would highly recommend it, before you make the big move and expense to move to Australia.

Agreed NZ is a beautiful place. Been there done it...couldn't live there!! Oz for me! :)

Buzzy--Bee Dec 13th 2005 8:44 am

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by ShozInOz
Note that the NZ forum is quite negative, and NZ struggles to keep its people.

This is very true. I am one of the "returnees". British people REALLY struggle in NZ. Have a good read through all the threads on the NZ forum back several years, compare them with the threads in the Oz or Canada forums for instance and then ask yourself why are the threads on the NZ forum so much more depressing.

I think NZ is a good place to live if you have lots of capital and dont need to earn an income, or maybe if you run your own business.

I could never work for an NZ company again - it is still perfectly legal for an NZ company to employ you, then give you NO days paid holiday in your first year, and give you salary REDUCTIONS. Also there are no benefits such as pension, life insurance etc for most people. The attitude of employers there is very much - "Be grateful we have even given you a job".

Sorry to be negative, but it would be a shame if you went there on false pretences and then said "I wish we'd known.............."

Cheers

Buzzy

fnord Dec 13th 2005 12:16 pm

Re: To all those with 'Australia-itus' check out New Zealand first...
 

Originally Posted by Claire&Richard
This is for those who have a yearning to live in Oz, who think its the best country in the world, and how nothing can be better then getting that visa granted and moving down under...

As a kiwi who has been living in Europe for 15 years, I have had to keep reminding myself of the reasons why I shouldn't go back to NZ. The nostalgia for the place keeps popping into my head but I have to realise that after 11 years in London, Auckland (which I don't even like), let alone Wellington would be too much of a shock to the system.

I even think I'll probably have a few issues with OZ and if it wasn't for my family (no ties in UK), I probably would be staying here.

Job wise, I might actually be initially better off in NZ being a Kiwi. I might have to spend some time proving myself in OZ. Proving I'm serious about OZ is one of the reasons I'm applying for PR even though I could just show up with my NZ passport. However, after the "acceptance" phase, it seems from my research I'll be far better off materially in OZ (but dropping somewhat from the UK, if I exclude London housing)


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