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Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Old Sep 16th 2021, 3:34 am
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Default Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Looking for information with regards to what would be considered the best option in accessing small pensions in the UK. Have done some reading regards to new legislative pension changes in the UK (Pots 30K and less, 25%lump sums etc) Also the ATO stance with regards to taxation i.e UPP deductions for British pensions. Anyone actually been through this minefield and currently drawing their pensions?

Thanks,
Martin
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:44 am
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Have you been in the Australian workforce for more than 10 years and do you have more than 588,000 AUD in Assets as a single person or 1,045,000 AUD as a couple and own your own home and are you retirement age, which currently is 66 years and 6 months in Australia.? As if you fit 'below' that criteria you qualify for an Australian Government Pension.

The reason being if your UK private pensions are less than 30K GBP, then you could be better off getting them sent over as a one of lump-sum payment. If you have more than the above-quoted assets beyond your own home above, take it as a monthly pension (Or upsize your home as the family home is exempt from the assets test). The reason being below that asset test threshold above, then you qualify for the Aus pension and any amount you receive from the UK will automatically be deducted from your Australian pension at the rate of 50pct dollar for dollar.

If you do go the Lump Sum route, you will have to pay capital gains tax here in Australia on any amount earned since you last paid into your UK Pension..

It's one hell of a convoluted process getting a lump sum payment from the UK but it can be done and AFAIK it has to total less than 30K GBP. I think the term used is a Trivial Lump Sum.




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Old Sep 16th 2021, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Have you been in the Australian workforce for more than 10 years and do you have more than 588,000 AUD in Assets as a single person or 1,045,000 AUD as a couple and own your own home and are you retirement age, which currently is 66 years and 6 months in Australia.? As if you fit 'below' that criteria you qualify for an Australian Government Pension.

The reason being if your UK private pensions are less than 30K GBP, then you could be better off getting them sent over as a one of lump-sum payment. If you have more than the above-quoted assets beyond your own home above, take it as a monthly pension (Or upsize your home as the family home is exempt from the assets test). The reason being below that asset test threshold above, then you qualify for the Aus pension and any amount you receive from the UK will automatically be deducted from your Australian pension at the rate of 50pct dollar for dollar.

If you do go the Lump Sum route, you will have to pay capital gains tax here in Australia on any amount earned since you last paid into your UK Pension..

It's one hell of a convoluted process getting a lump sum payment from the UK but it can be done and AFAIK it has to total less than 30K GBP. I think the term used is a Trivial Lump Sum.
Wow. So much misinformation here.

Please, don't ever take financial planning advice from randoms on the internet.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 2:41 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Wow. So much misinformation here.

Please, don't ever take financial planning advice from randoms on the internet.
Howdy Brisbannite. I totally agree with you re. acting on financial advice from strangers on the internet. Such information can be useful, however, as a starting point to understanding a subject - for example terminology that we might be unfamiliar with or even giving us a clue as to what questions to ask a professional. It can all help!

Maybe you could clarify what information you believe is incorrect, I'm sure that you and Ozzie between you can provide some useful pointers for the OP.




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Old Sep 16th 2021, 10:07 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Howdy Brisbannite. I totally agree with you re. acting on financial advice from strangers on the internet. Such information can be useful, however, as a starting point to understanding a subject - for example terminology that we might be unfamiliar with or even giving us a clue as to what questions to ask a professional. It can all help!

Maybe you could clarify what information you believe is incorrect, I'm sure that you and Ozzie between you can provide some useful pointers for the OP.
Reliable sources:

https://moneysmart.gov.au/how-super-works

https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publ...he-age-pension

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/S...to-your-super/

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/S...uperannuation/

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/super/

https://www.ato.gov.au/Super/APRA-re...n-super-funds/
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
Wow. So much misinformation here.

Please, don't ever take financial planning advice from randoms on the internet.

Can you explain one point I've made which is wrong.?


I"ve been studying very closely the interactions of the UK pension v the Australian Pension private and government for over 8 full years and am fully conversant with the assets and income tests in Australia in regards to how it affects both sets of government pensions UK and Austrlian.. The UK side is my weakness and am open to correction on any UK point.

I do know the people to talk to here in order to get a UK private pension landed in Australia, they have to be registered in both countries and are few on the ground. Took me a good couple of years to find an alternative to Alan Collette actually.

So cut the crap sunshine and cough up with your 'own" information. If your capable of anything other than negative retorts.

I doubt you'll find anyone on the Australian side on this forum that knows the Australian pension system than me. I can totally back myself with this.

Oh and definitely anyone taking onboard feel free to check my facts, you will find they are 100 pct accurate..... Go to a financial planner just before you retire get advice...but avoid their usual standard 3000 Dollar fee by being armed with the above information and using it to tailor your own retirement needs..














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Old Sep 17th 2021, 2:18 am
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Hi Brisnbannite,
I wouldn't for any matter go 100% with any advice given over the internet, but if you're like me or any other knowledge hungry individual the internet is still a good source of information. Unfortunately it does deliver some rubbish and this is where you have to apply your filter. I do appreciate your comments but for the record, consider the fact that the Australian government actioned a Royal Commission in the finance industry that included our Finance professionals giving bad advice to the tune of billions of dollars.... Some of our professionals are just as dodgy as the internet which is very unfortunate really as there are good advisors out there. The best advice and this is why I posted on here is "arm yourself with as much information as possible and then seek professional advice so no wool can be pulled over your eyes".
Thanks again for your input
Martin
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 2:45 am
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Hi Ozzieeagle,
Thanks for your comments, I did read one of your earlier posts from 2018 and seems you have been through the mill so to speak and much the wiser for it.
I'm not retired as yet but nearing a planned early retirement (pre 66) so now putting together my strategy.
Like many retirees I'm trying limit my tax liabilities, it is tricky and does need a bit of thought as I have 4 private pensions, a UK state pension and been resident in Australia for more than 10 years so got my work cut out. I think at the moment it looks like I'll be going down the monthly route. My thoughts are to try and keep my UK monthly pensions below the tax threshold initially but once the UK state pension kicks in that will change. Was going to PM you but had less than 3 posts on the forum.
Thanks,
Martin
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 3:00 am
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Links can be useful, but people post here to get a bit of an overview of a subject from those who have knowledge of it. You obviously know the subject well to conclude that information given is incorrect, so in the spirit of assisting all who'll read this thread in the future could you please elaborate a bit? Even just a couple of examples of what was misinformation, with your corrections, would be helpful.
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 5:01 am
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by marty.d
Hi Ozzieeagle,
Thanks for your comments, I did read one of your earlier posts from 2018 and seems you have been through the mill so to speak and much the wiser for it.
I'm not retired as yet but nearing a planned early retirement (pre 66) so now putting together my strategy.
Like many retirees I'm trying limit my tax liabilities, it is tricky and does need a bit of thought as I have 4 private pensions, a UK state pension and been resident in Australia for more than 10 years so got my work cut out. I think at the moment it looks like I'll be going down the monthly route. My thoughts are to try and keep my UK monthly pensions below the tax threshold initially but once the UK state pension kicks in that will change. Was going to PM you but had less than 3 posts on the forum.
Thanks,
Martin

Ahh yes the private pension grab saga I went though, that was a bit of an ordeal, especially as I was told by financial experts in the UK that I couldn't grab my lump sum.

The UK and Australian systems clash a lot, basically because the UK system is geared towards weekly or more pension payments and the Australian system has the major benefit of doing both. In otherwords you can take your Superannuation in Australia as a full lump sum in cash at the end of ones working life. The reason this is a benefit is it can be used immediately to cover any remaining debts you may have.... plus it can be used to offset the income and assets test limitations with the Australian Government Pension.

First major difference is the Australian system counts married couples pensions as one unit as far as the income and assets test is concerned. However, it is fairly generous in asmuch as a couple can have an income of 3192 dollars per fortnight and still get some Australian government pension. When you receive an Australian Government Pension you also access the Pension card, which gives one a lot of benefits from reduced rates, utility allowances in some cases, prescriptions, car registrations .... the list goes on. It does get complicated as the income also includes deeming on ones assets, which usually are deemed at the rate of 5pct (currently and temporarily reduced to 2.5pct because of Covid) of your total assets to the cut off point of AUD 884,000 between a couple. Which would give one a deemed income of circa 44K per annum.
,
Now those cut off points are where it gets interesting, as one can use the lump sum to actually upsize to more expensive home so as to bring one under the threshold limits as ones home is free from the assets test.... It gets even better... as then you are able to utilise any remaining super to the value of up to AUD600K as a couple.... When it comes time to downsizing as you are free to replace any profit from the sale of a family dwelling back into ones super... tax-free. Basically what this means is one can free up 600K say over ten years from ones original super balance spend that as one wishes, whilst still getting an Australian Pension as withdrawals from super are not counted as income.... only the deemed portion of assets and super is. As one spends their original balance the Australian Government pension also increases the level of AUD 347,500K in assets from which point you a full Australian pension (currently 1436 AUD per couple per fortnight) .... It gets even better....

In certain states around Australia pensioners are free from Stamp Duty payments against purchased real estate, so you can downsize when a couple has spent a portion (say AUD600K) of their Super and replenish it fully without penalty or stamp duty payments back into their original super and also maintain the Government Pension. (plus the other benefit is usually house prices double every 12 to 15 years or less in most Australian major cities... hence zero net loss)

The problem with all of this and what works against it totally are UK income streams from Pension Pots. How you get around that is an issue that I don't know the answer. I managed it because my UK private pension was so small and only included my earnings from 1970 to 1980.

You'll be hard pushed anywhere to find a financial advisor that will advise about the intricate machinations of centerlink... I can just about 100pct guarantee a UK financial advisor won't go anywhere near it. Thats a compounded issue because there aren't a lot of Australian financial advisors than can help with UK pension pots say 10 to 15 years out from retirement.

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Sep 17th 2021 at 5:12 am.
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 1:31 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by marty.d
Hi Ozzieeagle,
Thanks for your comments, I did read one of your earlier posts from 2018 and seems you have been through the mill so to speak and much the wiser for it.
I'm not retired as yet but nearing a planned early retirement (pre 66) so now putting together my strategy.
Like many retirees I'm trying limit my tax liabilities, it is tricky and does need a bit of thought as I have 4 private pensions, a UK state pension and been resident in Australia for more than 10 years so got my work cut out. I think at the moment it looks like I'll be going down the monthly route. My thoughts are to try and keep my UK monthly pensions below the tax threshold initially but once the UK state pension kicks in that will change. Was going to PM you but had less than 3 posts on the forum.
Thanks,
Martin
To be honest, I don't know how to reduce the UK component of tax liabilities once they arrive in Aus. However, if you want any advice on how to maximise the Australian Government Pension and work your way into the parameters of the assets and income tests... then I may well be able to help. That is the area I've really studied.




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Old Sep 17th 2021, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Ahh yes the private pension grab saga I went though, that was a bit of an ordeal, especially as I was told by financial experts in the UK that I couldn't grab my lump sum.

The UK and Australian systems clash a lot, basically because the UK system is geared towards weekly or more pension payments and the Australian system has the major benefit of doing both. In otherwords you can take your Superannuation in Australia as a full lump sum in cash at the end of ones working life. The reason this is a benefit is it can be used immediately to cover any remaining debts you may have.... plus it can be used to offset the income and assets test limitations with the Australian Government Pension.

First major difference is the Australian system counts married couples pensions as one unit as far as the income and assets test is concerned. However, it is fairly generous in asmuch as a couple can have an income of 3192 dollars per fortnight and still get some Australian government pension. When you receive an Australian Government Pension you also access the Pension card, which gives one a lot of benefits from reduced rates, utility allowances in some cases, prescriptions, car registrations .... the list goes on. It does get complicated as the income also includes deeming on ones assets, which usually are deemed at the rate of 5pct (currently and temporarily reduced to 2.5pct because of Covid) of your total assets to the cut off point of AUD 884,000 between a couple. Which would give one a deemed income of circa 44K per annum.
,
Now those cut off points are where it gets interesting, as one can use the lump sum to actually upsize to more expensive home so as to bring one under the threshold limits as ones home is free from the assets test.... It gets even better... as then you are able to utilise any remaining super to the value of up to AUD600K as a couple.... When it comes time to downsizing as you are free to replace any profit from the sale of a family dwelling back into ones super... tax-free. Basically what this means is one can free up 600K say over ten years from ones original super balance spend that as one wishes, whilst still getting an Australian Pension as withdrawals from super are not counted as income.... only the deemed portion of assets and super is. As one spends their original balance the Australian Government pension also increases the level of AUD 347,500K in assets from which point you a full Australian pension (currently 1436 AUD per couple per fortnight) .... It gets even better....

In certain states around Australia pensioners are free from Stamp Duty payments against purchased real estate, so you can downsize when a couple has spent a portion (say AUD600K) of their Super and replenish it fully without penalty or stamp duty payments back into their original super and also maintain the Government Pension. (plus the other benefit is usually house prices double every 12 to 15 years or less in most Australian major cities... hence zero net loss)

The problem with all of this and what works against it totally are UK income streams from Pension Pots. How you get around that is an issue that I don't know the answer. I managed it because my UK private pension was so small and only included my earnings from 1970 to 1980.

You'll be hard pushed anywhere to find a financial advisor that will advise about the intricate machinations of centerlink... I can just about 100pct guarantee a UK financial advisor won't go anywhere near it. Thats a compounded issue because there aren't a lot of Australian financial advisors than can help with UK pension pots say 10 to 15 years out from retirement.
I'm sorry but not only is this garbage but you're comparing the OP's apples to your rather meager orange.

You may speak with conviction and believe that what you say is true but that doesn't make it so. Furthermore you have a garbled and mind-dumping way of explaining things that makes absolutely no sense.

Look, I put a lot of effort into giving a lot of very well considered links from reputable sources earlier in this thread, if people haven't got the good sense to read them and would rather take postman pat's words as gospel, that's their prerogative. it's a free world .

However, this is a commercial site and I'm somewhat surprised that the owners appear to be content to sit back and let the financial equivalent of barrack room lawyers have free reign when it comes to giving out misleading financial information. Can you sue the site if you act on bad advice and suffer a loss? I doubt that you will be able to afford to.

Thanks for reminding me why I haven't been near this forum for 14 years, it is stuck in a time warp and its sad to see the same old same old names still here chasing their tails after soooo many years. Heck, even Sue had the good judgement to move on

Good luck. You're going to need it.


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Old Sep 17th 2021, 3:55 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by Brisbannite
I'm sorry but not only is this garbage but you're comparing the OP's apples to your rather meager orange.

You may speak with conviction and believe that what you say is true but that doesn't make it so. Furthermore you have a garbled and mind-dumping way of explaining things that makes absolutely no sense.

Look, I put a lot of effort into giving a lot of very well considered links from reputable sources earlier in this thread, if people haven't got the good sense to read them and would rather take postman pat's words as gospel, that's their prerogative. it's a free world .

However, this is a commercial site and I'm somewhat surprised that the owners appear to be content to sit back and let the financial equivalent of barrack room lawyers have free reign when it comes to giving out misleading financial information. Can you sue the site if you act on bad advice and suffer a loss? I doubt that you will be able to afford to.

Thanks for reminding me why I haven't been near this forum for 14 years, it is stuck in a time warp and its sad to see the same old same old names still here chasing their tails after soooo many years. Heck, even Sue had the good judgement to move on

Good luck. You're going to need it.
Bye bye Shaun....
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Old Sep 17th 2021, 3:57 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Bye bye Shaun....
Who the heck is Shaun?

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Old Sep 17th 2021, 3:59 pm
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Default Re: Accessing UK Pensions in retirement.....

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
To be honest, I don't know how to reduce the UK component of tax liabilities once they arrive in Aus. However, if you want any advice on how to maximise the Australian Government Pension and work your way into the parameters of the assets and income tests... then I may well be able to help. That is the area I've really studied.
You may have studied but did you pass?
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