Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Aug 23rd 2013, 2:57 am
#61
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Posts: 195
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
I really don't see the OP's pov at all. I applied for "permanent residence" which turns out is only permanent if I don't actually leave the country (a farce imho). No matter how many years I reside here, my right to reside here will never actually be permanent, as I'll have to apply for a RRV every 5 years, unless I am granted citizenship. The government has set up a moneymaking scheme whereby immigrants have to prove that they've remained for enough days in the country over a 5 year period, so that they can PAY AGAIN to get another 5 years RRV.
The way I see it the government is trying to force immigrants through inconvenience and regular costs, to apply for Australian citizenship so that I can remain here indefinitely. Given how many times the Immigration department have changed their rules and views on visa holders (esp 457 holders), I don't feel any security about my long-term status in Australia on a "permanent visa". I imagine I too will apply for Australian citizenship once I am eligible so that I can have some security about my future here. For me it has cast an ugly cloud over the citizenship choice.
In comparison, when we lived in Ireland, my husband, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, was granted a permanent residence visa for Ireland that was actually permanent. This left him with a free choice about whether he wanted to become an Irish citizen when he'd resided for the requisite period to allow him to apply for citizenship. If Australia really cared about people's motives for becoming citizens, they'd remove the RRV altogether (or at least only make you apply for it once after 5 years to make your perm visa actually permanent) but I honestly think they want new residents to take up citizenship over remaining "permanent residents", so through protocols and procedures, indirectly coerce residents to take up citizenship.
The way I see it the government is trying to force immigrants through inconvenience and regular costs, to apply for Australian citizenship so that I can remain here indefinitely. Given how many times the Immigration department have changed their rules and views on visa holders (esp 457 holders), I don't feel any security about my long-term status in Australia on a "permanent visa". I imagine I too will apply for Australian citizenship once I am eligible so that I can have some security about my future here. For me it has cast an ugly cloud over the citizenship choice.
In comparison, when we lived in Ireland, my husband, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, was granted a permanent residence visa for Ireland that was actually permanent. This left him with a free choice about whether he wanted to become an Irish citizen when he'd resided for the requisite period to allow him to apply for citizenship. If Australia really cared about people's motives for becoming citizens, they'd remove the RRV altogether (or at least only make you apply for it once after 5 years to make your perm visa actually permanent) but I honestly think they want new residents to take up citizenship over remaining "permanent residents", so through protocols and procedures, indirectly coerce residents to take up citizenship.
Last edited by scrudu; Aug 23rd 2013 at 4:40 am.
Aug 23rd 2013, 3:00 am
#62
Frequent Flyer Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,994
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
The question is a more about whether the OP has renounced their prior citizenship, as the implication from the theme of the thread is that commitment to one country must be mutually exclusive. And I assume this is based on some moral / ethical belief.
Presumably the OP took up Australia citizenship as they were committed to life in Australia and therefore they're presumably not committed to life elsewhere?
Aug 23rd 2013, 3:22 am
#63
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
I really don't see the OP's pov at all. I applied for "permanent residence" which turns out is only permanent if I don't actually leave the country (a farce imho). No matter how many years I reside here, my right to reside here will never actually be permanent, as I'll have to apply for a RRV every 5 years, unless I am granted citizenship. The government has set up a moneymaking scheme whereby I have to prove that I've remained for enough days in the country over a 5 year period, so that I can PAY AGAIN to get another 5 years RRV.
The way I see it the government is trying to force me through inconvenience and regular costs, to apply for Australian citizenship so that I can remain here indefinitely. Given how many times the Immigration department have changed their rules and views on visa holders (esp 457 holders), I feel no security of my status in Australia on my "permanent visa". I imagine I too will apply for Australian citizenship once I am eligible so that I can have some security about my future here. Personally I think it's a pretty crap reason for someone to become a citizen of a country and for me has cast an ugly cloud over the choice I'll face when I'm eligible.
In comparison, when we lived in Ireland, my husband, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, was granted a permanent residence visa for Ireland that was actually permanent. This left him with a free choice about whether he wanted to become an Irish citizen when he'd resided for the requisite period to allow him to apply for citizenship. If Australia really cared about people's motives for becoming citizens, they'd remove the RRV altogether (or at least only make you apply for it once after 5 years to make your perm visa actually permanent) but I honestly think they want new residents to take up citizenship over remaining "permanent residents", so through protocols and procedures, indirectly coerce residents to take up citizenship.
The way I see it the government is trying to force me through inconvenience and regular costs, to apply for Australian citizenship so that I can remain here indefinitely. Given how many times the Immigration department have changed their rules and views on visa holders (esp 457 holders), I feel no security of my status in Australia on my "permanent visa". I imagine I too will apply for Australian citizenship once I am eligible so that I can have some security about my future here. Personally I think it's a pretty crap reason for someone to become a citizen of a country and for me has cast an ugly cloud over the choice I'll face when I'm eligible.
In comparison, when we lived in Ireland, my husband, as a spouse of an Irish citizen, was granted a permanent residence visa for Ireland that was actually permanent. This left him with a free choice about whether he wanted to become an Irish citizen when he'd resided for the requisite period to allow him to apply for citizenship. If Australia really cared about people's motives for becoming citizens, they'd remove the RRV altogether (or at least only make you apply for it once after 5 years to make your perm visa actually permanent) but I honestly think they want new residents to take up citizenship over remaining "permanent residents", so through protocols and procedures, indirectly coerce residents to take up citizenship.
we got citizenship cos we love it here - it means we can come and go as we please if we want when we want
don't give a crap why others get it that's their own reasons..
Aug 23rd 2013, 8:52 am
#64
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Don't agree that older people make errors about their rights. Those who came with PR and had the right to vote were, in the main, young and knew exactly what their rights were. Those who have come since that time I assume know all the things that they can't do on a PR visa.
Pollyanna is so right when she said it was cheaper to get citizenship and a passport than RRVs. That's one of the reasons I eventually took citizenship. RRVs used to cost nothing, then $30 and the last one I got was $90! Don't know what they cost now.
Pollyanna is so right when she said it was cheaper to get citizenship and a passport than RRVs. That's one of the reasons I eventually took citizenship. RRVs used to cost nothing, then $30 and the last one I got was $90! Don't know what they cost now.
Remember this is the figure for a 5 year RRV, after 5 years you have to pay again.
Aug 23rd 2013, 9:43 am
#65
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Post 7 in this thread - http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=806273 - I knew I'd seen the figures this week Remember this is the figure for a 5 year RRV, after 5 years you have to pay again.
Remember this is the figure for a 5 year RRV, after 5 years you have to pay again.
Aug 23rd 2013, 10:14 am
#66
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Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,138
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
In answer to the OPs original post, no, I don't think that gaining Oz citizenship and then moving on is abusing anything or anyone. Why on earth would Australia want to hold its citizens here against their will? Only the Poms did that, in colonial times ;-)
I speak (write) as an Australian who's never lived anywhere else. Hopefully UK bound in a couple of years though, my British (dual citizen) husband and I just bought an off plan apartment in Liverpool. Hope the developer doesn't go bust!
I speak (write) as an Australian who's never lived anywhere else. Hopefully UK bound in a couple of years though, my British (dual citizen) husband and I just bought an off plan apartment in Liverpool. Hope the developer doesn't go bust!
Aug 23rd 2013, 10:35 am
#67
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Because its a four year wait now for citizenship I reckon people who don't really want to be here in Aus. will be gone long before the four years. That will stop a lot of the ones who got citizenship under the old system of where you only had to be here two years before applying. I also believe it is very easy for those who come from countries where they can have dual nationality. I do believe you should have a commitment to the country you are applying to but I can see why people do it, its like leaving your options open and if you can why not? Like another person said, the governments are aware of it and are ok with it so why not other people?
Aug 23rd 2013, 11:20 am
#68
Daffyd Duck
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Paradise
Posts: 5,636
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
So....
Should British Citizens who decide to live permanently in Australia and become Australian Citizens, renounce their British Citizenship to avoid abusing it?
Should British Citizens who decide to live permanently in Australia and become Australian Citizens, renounce their British Citizenship to avoid abusing it?
Aug 23rd 2013, 12:43 pm
#69
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Aug 23rd 2013, 1:07 pm
#71
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
[QUOTE=bcworld;10864971]C'mon kips...this one really needs an answer...I think it's the second time it was asked.[
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
Aug 23rd 2013, 1:30 pm
#72
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
The citizenship application fee is $260 and that includes the test and the citizenship book you need to prepare for the test. Those who fail the test can take the test again as many times as they want without paying again.
Aug 23rd 2013, 1:35 pm
#73
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
Yep, and as i thought there's no charge for the test itself, not sure why the other poster thought there was.
Aug 23rd 2013, 1:42 pm
#74
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Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
C'mon kips...this one really needs an answer...I think it's the second time it was asked.[
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
Aug 24th 2013, 12:49 am
#75
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Abuse of Australian citizenship ?
[QUOTE=kips;10865574]
This smacks of double standards
What if someone lives in Aus over 35 years having paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent their money in Aus? Just like you want the choice to move back to wherever they prefer.
Your starting post was about taking out citizenship and not living in that country yet it's OK to obtain citizenship from where you were born but not live there and keep the same citizenship
Personally duel citizenship is OK lets face it if someone obtains the right to move somewhere it's because the country wants them and if the same person wants to move around so what so long as they pay taxes whilst they are there. Realistically how many go back and forth in real terms as the majority stay in one place - the "failure" rate is not worth getting our knickers in a twist for - live and let live and freedom of choice I reckon
C'mon kips...this one really needs an answer...I think it's the second time it was asked.[
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
Why do I need to renounce the citizenship of the country I born in, where I lived for more than 35 years, where I paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent all my money. And still spend money when I visit and consider my second home.
Not that it is anyone's business but I still have ties to UK. I still have a bank account, pension and investments over there and I go back to the UK to see family every few years.
And one day I might even go back for good.
Don't see the relevance of the question to my post. All I am doing is pointing out what the Australian government expects from you if you decide to become an Australian citizen and be aware of what you are agreeing to.
The government here is notorious for changing the rules without warning. Who knows? One of these days the politicians may decide to take away the citizenship of those who go and live in another country just weeks after being granted citizenship and return years later - but haven't maintained ties to Australia in meantime which is one of the conditions of citizenship.
What if someone lives in Aus over 35 years having paid taxes, obeyed the law and spent their money in Aus? Just like you want the choice to move back to wherever they prefer.
Your starting post was about taking out citizenship and not living in that country yet it's OK to obtain citizenship from where you were born but not live there and keep the same citizenship
Personally duel citizenship is OK lets face it if someone obtains the right to move somewhere it's because the country wants them and if the same person wants to move around so what so long as they pay taxes whilst they are there. Realistically how many go back and forth in real terms as the majority stay in one place - the "failure" rate is not worth getting our knickers in a twist for - live and let live and freedom of choice I reckon