commonwealth

Solution: apply for PR if possible.

Amazulu

The stated aim is to raise revenue. By my calculations, they will get an extra $35m a year. By the time you take out the cost of administion, they won't get much especially when total debt is predicted to balloon to over $28b in coming years

It seems pointless to me

sonlymewalter

whilst I get what you're saying, there are companies bringing in 457 visa holders when there ARE people in Aus capable of doing the same jobs. The way these visas are requested and allowed is a joke and it's about time they are making it harder for companies to bring in 457 visa holders as only genuine skill shortages should be brought in especially when jobs in Aus are already hard to come by.

Some multi national companies also move people to countries like Aus rather than employ within Aus and for company staff retainment it's a great strategy but it's also not fair when highly skilled people emigrate and can't find work cos companies are bringing in their best people as opposed to employing within the country where the work is. This creates a closed shop employment situation and others aren't given the same chance and makes a mockery of skilled permanent visa holders.

I thought 457 visa holders had the choice to either pay tax within the country they work / reside or elsewhere?

If that's changed then all good as Tax is being ploughed back into Aus. If not then some 457 visa holders are enabling the tax to go to other countries which is not right as it depletes money in the tax coffers within the country they work and live in and does not sustain the infrastructure required

It seems Aus has finally woken up to the 457 scam that some companies have created and are making these companies and these visa holders more accountable.Good - only genuine 457 visas will get through as there's no more "free lunch" benefits to be had which is how it should be.

As for changing the rules for those already here - lots of visas change rules part way through. It's crap and I personally don't think it's fair but its how it is with lots of visa's.

John Mc

If companies are being allowed to exploit the system then the problem is with the companies not the individuals. The thing is they are not making it harder for companies at all, they are punishing the people that the companies are bringing in which is a huge difference. Whilst I agree that it shouldn't be so easy for a company to overlook skilled people in Aus in favour of bringing people over on a 457, it also stands to reason that this is in no way the fault of the people they are bringing in.

The company I work for ran a recruitment campaign not so long ago and only found one person from Australia to fill one of the 10 vacancies. They decided to go back to the UK and recruit 9 people on 457 visas. The company believe the people that they interviewed in Australia were not coming up to the standard that they required. Hence they decided it necessary to go back to the UK to bring people in with the right skills to move the company forward. This isn't any of the people they are recruiting's fault, it is purely the company making this decision. Yet the government want to penalise these people

As far as tax is concerned, if you go onto the ATO website and do the "Am I resident for tax purposes" tool, it states that you are resident for tax purposes even if you are a temporary worker. My brother in law is here on a working holiday visa and even he is resident for tax purposes. So the tax we are paying on this visa is indeed being ploughed back into WA.

Coming here on a 457 visa is no free lunch, as you put it, at all. I work and pay taxes, I'm not entitled to any benefits, which is right, or many of the tax benefits that people on PR are entitled to. I think that people are blinkered into believing whatever the media tell them to believe. It's an easy win, politically, targetting the people on 457 visas after the media have been telling everyone for years how easy it is for 457 visa holders. How they are earning here and sending all of their money back to their home country. How can Aus possibly survive when this happening blah blah. Exactly the same thing is happening in the UK, the UK media paint the same picture of Eastern Europeans. It is easier for them to actually send a lot of their money back to their home country because they are part of the EU. I for one do not believe all that I read in the papers and like to see real facts before making any decisions.

I am starting the PR process right at this minute but it still irks me to see some of the rubbish that is printed as truth.

Cheers

John

sonlymewalter

Correct. Agree 100%. Like I said it's great that companies are being monitored more to ensure the 457 is provided to the right people for the right reason although we're still a loooooong way off getting it right.

Disagree. The visa changes have been put into place to a) discourage companies using the option of bringing in people where the skills are available in Aus b) to stop 457 visa holders using Australian infrastructure whilst not supporting it. The visa changes are no different to any visa where changes are often put into place to slow down or make required changes.

Agree - however 457 visa holders are no different to any other visa holders in that rules sometimes change

No one is saying 457 visa's are not required - what IS being said is that often companies / recruitment people bring in skills that are CLEARLY available in Aus and despite this available skills are brought in when there are MANY skilled migrants and Australians already here and overlooked when people brought in because lazy or inadequate recruitment companies or companies cannot be bothered to see what's here. Inexperienced recruitment people pigeon hole and can't see outside the box - it's easier to bring someone in - not in all cases but in hell of a lot of cases this happens. Yep bringing in skills where there are none is definitely required however recruitment companies and companies MUST prove this and be more accountable.


That wasn'y my question. My question was - is it compulsory to pay Aussie tax on 457 earnings or can you elect to pay tax in another country

You are getting your knickers in a twist - my post wasn't aimed at you direct or indeed at ALL 457 visa's - it was aimed at those who have come over on the visa when clearly those skills are available IN AUSTRALIA

Good - perm visa means you don't have to worry about temp visa issues.

As for rubbish printed - FYI my opinion is based on what I've seen first hand with both recruitment services and companies using 457 to bring in skills that are DEFINITLY available in Australia. Accountability bring the key I reckon

John Mc

I'm not getting my knickers in a twist I can assure you

No you cannot elect to pay tax elsewhere as far as I'm aware. Being resident for tax purposes means just that. You are here earning therefore it is compulsory you pay tax here, simple really.

How can 457 visa holders be using Aus infrastructure and not supporting it when we are all paying tax here

I would say without a doubt that my skills are available within the Australian labour market but yet the company see fit to employ people from the UK. What the company know after recruiting me and a few others last year is that the skills we have are directly transferrable to the role they require to be filled. If they were to employ someone from within Aus but from a different business unit then the training they would require is a lot more time and effort consuming.

Example: Taking someone from operations within a Mine site and asking them to operate a gas processing plant is miles apart.

Amazulu

What you are saying is fair enough. There is no question though that some companies have abused the 457 system. IBM stated recently that they were laying off people here in order to replace them with 457s. Fortunately the recent moves by the government has probably scuppered these plans

As you said previously, it's not the fault of individual 457s if companies take the piss

sonlymewalter

Yep makes sense

On my part this was a question not a statement. Now that you've clarified that anyone in Aus on a 457 visa must pay Aus Tax I agree, this means 457 visa's support the infrastructure they are entitled to use.

Not sure what you are saying here? Your skills are "without a doubt" available within Australia yet you have been brought here on a 457?

Agreed but then this is not what we are talking about here. We are discussing where the exact same jobs are available in Aus.

One thing I do agree with is 457 visa holders should NOT be penalised if someone has brought them in when others already in Aus could do their job. Whoever has brought them in should be questioned as to why they've brought in a skill already available in Aus - and they should be heavily fined and held up as case law so other companies don't take the same easy option.

John Mc

What I am saying is, yes there are people within Australia that could work within a Gas processing plant, what I currently do, but the company choose to recruit from the UK. What the company are trying to do is recruit people with directly transferrable skills to make the transition easier on them. Now whether you or I agree with that doesn't really matter, but this is what the government should be directing their focus on imo. Not directing their focus on the people being employed and calling them a drain on the system.

You could employ someone from a myriad of other sectors and train them to operate a processing plant but it all comes down to time and effort. I believe that Australian companies should be employing workers already here if they are up to the standard that the company require. One question I'm yet to work out is how my company have struggled to find enough people of the right calbre to fill the roles they are advertising.

sonlymewalter

If what you mean is that Aus needed your specific skills within Gas processing as there was no one immediately available in Aus, then that's a "true" 457 visa requirement as there is no one in Aus who could do this without costly training (time & money). The government are not directing their focus on these 457's - they are directing their focus on 457 visa holders where their equivalent skill is/was available in Aus.

If ever you've dealt with some of the dipshit recruitment companies over here you might know why mate. To be a Recruitment "specialist" you need no qualifications, no need to have ever worked in the industry or done the job. That's why some of these people need exact job requirements as some of them are too thick to work out where transferable skills would (and would not) be transferable. They fear anyone who doesn't work out (for whatever reason) will be blamed on them and they lose their next job. Then the companies out here can't be arsed investing so again blame workers or recruitment companies for bringing in the wrong people when things go tits up.

Top and bottom of it is it's a cultural thing - it's too easy to bring people in, no need to coach, develop or train anyone and if it goes tits up it's someone elses fault.

Eeebygum

Just another confirmation that we are doing the right thing by getting out now........

Beoz

Ok ..... I was a big fan of removing LAHFA for 457's as it was robbing the taxpayer but this is robbery of the 457 holder.

If you pay the same tax as everyone else you get the same benefits. Simple. No complexity. Just madness.

Eeebygum

sonlymewalter, you shouldn't be so concerned, coming to Australia, and Perth particularly, on a 457 visa is become an increasingly less attractive option. This recent decision to penalise 457 visa holders further, coupled with the strength of the dollar and economic downturn may well mean that employers struggle to attract skilled workers to WA. Then you can get your wish of australian jobs for australian workers. Hope Australia can fill all those skilled roles needed to support the economy........

sonlymewalter

I agree genuine 457 visa holders shouldn't be penalised. I also agree companies and recruitment firms need to get their act together and only employ genuine 457 skilled migrants who can't be sourced in Aus.

roaringmouse

If a company genuinely needs 457 holders, then they and the prospective employee can allow for the cost of public school fees in pay negotiations.