JAJ

A lot of people seem to be asking about the 457 visa, so here's a fairly comprehensive list of restrictions you face compared to having PR.

I've added some of the benefits of citizenship vs PR for those contemplating whether or not to take up Australian citizenship.

Jeremy

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Restrictions on a 457 visa vs permanent residence

1. You can only work for your sponsoring employer. You are forbidden to have any secondary employment. If you are laid off, you have 28 days to find a new employer (plus sponsor) or leave Australia.
2. School fees in NSW (and possibly some other states - you need to check) - AUD4.5k per child per year
3. The time does not count for Australian citizenship.
4. Children born to you in Australia will not be Australian citizens by birth.
5. Your spouse will have unrestricted work rights but will find it hard to get career-orientated jobs as employers usually prefer citizens/PRs
6. Your children will be treated as "overseas students" if they go to university in Australia
7. As your children get older (especially once they turn 18), it may be harder to include them in a permanent visa application. They could end up having to go home once deemed "independent" even if the rest of the family gets permanent residence
8. You will face FIRB restrictions on buying property.
9. No eligibility for Medicare, other than limited reciprocal healthcare schemes for some nationalities. Health insurance will be more expensive.
Once you apply for a PR visa you are normally eligible for Medicare.
10. No entitlement to social security or welfare benefits. This includes benefits paid to mothers of new babies, and things like the first home buyers grant.
11. No automatic entitlement to permanent residence (PR). Bear in mind the usual problem is that the employer won't sponsor for PR. Not can't - won't.
You must also bear in mind that a death, illness or divorce/separation before PR is granted could leave some or all family members in a very difficult visa situation.
12. Some professions and occupations (eg migration agent) are closed to those without permanent residence.
13. You cannot sponsor relatives for permanent residence or sign an Assurance of Support for migration purposes.
14. There is no legal bar on obtaining credit (eg loans, credit cards) but you will likely find it harder to get one without permanent status.

Although in general 457 holders pay the same taxes as Australians (for little or no benefit) there are a few tax breaks available to temporary residents. The most notable one is Living Away from Home Allowance (LAFHA). However this must be negotiated as part of your salary package and is under threat as soon as you apply for a permanent visa. The same goes for the other temporary resident tax exemptions. Most 457 holders (other than those who are expatriates employed by multinationals, who are in a different situation to most) believe that the tax concessions do not compensate for the limited rights they have compared to permanent residents.

457 visa holders are eligible to recover their superannuation (less tax) when they leave Australia, but recent announcements on favourable superannuation contributions for those earning less than AUD58k per year will not apply to 457 holders.

NZ citizens in Australia without permanent residence or 'eligible NZ status' have to contend with the following from the list above: 4, 10, 11 and 13, plus no prospect of accessing any of the rights of citizenship below.


Advantages of citizenship vs permanent residence

1. Australian passport
2. Australian consular protection when overseas (but not in the country of your second nationality)
3. Entitlement to vote (this is an obligation)
4. Entitlement to stand for public office (subject to section 44i of the Constitution which forbids most dual nationals from being elected to the Federal Parliament - but not state parliaments).
5. Ability to leave the country for as long as you like and return, without needing a resident return visa
6. You cannot be deported for committing crimes, unless your citizenship is cancelled first. It's much easier to deport a permanent resident.
7. Naturalised Australian citizens can register overseas born children as Australian citizens by descent. Children born to PRs overseas have no status in Australia and need to be sponsored for migration.
8. It's possible to sponsor for some visas (eg spouse) without being usually resident in Australia
9. You can work for the Federal government.
10. Full access to schemes to support university fees payment. Permanent residents pay domestic fees but do not get the full concessions offered to citizens.
11. Australian citizens can live and work freely in New Zealand (and become NZ citizens after meeting normal residence requirements). Permanent residents can also live in NZ but this is dangerous as there is a risk of losing status in Australia as a result.

Eligible NZ citizens in Australia (who have not taken Australian citizenship) are excluded from all of the above except 5 and 11. Even the ability to return to Australia after leaving is contingent on Australia's laws concerning NZ citizens remaining the same.

andrew63

Jeremy
Great thread and very useful bt a tad negative if you were offered a position on 457. You may not want to go unless you get PR. Certainly if there is a choice, you would want PR.
I came over on a 457 last month and my employer is now applying for the ENS (PR). He did it this way as the agent advised this would guarantee my residency whereas applying for an ENS may not have (as good as guarantees could be in this game).
What I am saying is that 457s serve a purpose too.

Andrew

JAJ

A 457 does not give you any preference when applying for ENS. That *might* change next year, but I only post based on the law as it is now.

ENS can be applied for offshore. There is no obligation to have a 457 visa.

As for being negative about the 457 - it's being realistic. Most agents working in Australia regularly see people in a mess because they're stuck on a 457 and not able to get PR (usually because employer won't sponsor, but there are other reasons). If your employer is sponsoring for ENS and it works out, then no problem.

By all means come to Australia on a 457 if it's the right solution, but do so with eyes open, not closed.

Jeremy

jjonboy

Jeremy,

Has anything further being announced yet re the timespans going from 457 to PR to Citizenship....

I appreciate you have reported as per current legislation, but am i right in saying there has been some contemplation around the idea of 12 months pr plus 12 months on a 457 may be enough for citizenship in the near future?

As an aside one of the most frustrating things for us about the 457 was the inability to get credit even for really minor low value items such as mobile phone etc...

Thanks

Jonboy

CasG

While you have mentioned the issue of employers not sponsoring for PR - thus causing problems for people who have decided that they do want to stay in Australia - surely they can apply themselves for PR independantly and have a good a chance as any of being successful?
I'm a nurse which will remain an 'in demand' skill whether I apply for PR onshore or offshore
Otherwise an informative and useful thread generally, thankyou.
Cas

JAJ

Nothing further as yet. Things might change in 2005 - watch this space.

Jeremy

JAJ

Yes they can apply for PR independently - if they have the basic requirements and points. However, often someone working on a 457 doesn't have enough points to get PR, especially with the 120 pass mark.

Not everyone is a nurse.

Jeremy

SprintST1

Very informative JAJ & comments much appreciated Caroline/Andrew.

Please correct me but the BIG POSITIVE for (commercial) companies supporting 457s (rather than PR) is because they are quick. You have a business need - you get someone in - quick. The nominee gets to move to Oz quickly. PR would be nice, but most PR situations take many months/1yr+ (except for maybe the MODL list). Commercial companies can rarely wait that long.

A Migration Agent has also advised that by being employed 6 months in Oz on a 457 visa should entitle an extra 5 points for permanent migration. True?

Thanks all.

andrew63

Jonboy
Not quite true.
Within a week of arriving, I had my TFN, bank account open, visa card, mobile phone (monthly bill) and a week later I got a mortgage organised and car loan.
Apparently ably assisted by new employer putting a word in for me where he could.

Andrew

JAJ

ENS/RSMS PR applications are prioritised and it would be very unusual for a well prepared application to take anything close to a year.

Some employers start a 457 visa and a PR process in parallel. That's usually ok. The horror stories normally concern those employers who just do the 457 and don't want to do PR at all.

Almost.

Some occupations acceptable for the 457 visa are not on the general skilled SOL list, no points in that case. Also, you can't claim this 5 points alongside capital investment or community language points.

The problem with the 120 pass mark is that many people, especially in the 35+ age bracket, can't get to this level, even with the 5 points you mention. Which means that ENS/RSMS is the fall back => big problems if employer can't or won't sponsor.

Jeremy

wmoore

Totally agree with you here. I take Jeremy's points on board (because the guy knows what he's talking about) but I'm hoping to go on a 457 initially because my PR is a while away (ie I haven't put the forms in yet ) and I want to get there sooner rather than later. Providing the rules for 136 visas don't change (and sadly there's no guarantee of that) then the extra 5 points for 6 months work experience will mean I can keep my $100,000 in my skyrocket. Which is nice.

jjonboy

As ever in a public forum everyones experience is different. Sounds like everything went swimmingly for you. But for some having no track record credit wise in Oz plus the lack of permanancy is enough to scare a lot of providers off...

Glad to hear everything went well for you guys though

Jonboy

andrew63

Jonboy
I had no track record and on a 457 too (3-yr).
I appreciate I was lucky but it shows that the system does allow you to get these things, its just a case of finding a sypmathetic ear and/or an Aussie person to vouch for you.

Andrew

Cunning Plan MLord

Hi all

I'm a newbie so treat me gently! Only just found this forum. Doh!

Thanks for all the info above.

Got granted a 457 and we're off to Sydney in Jan. Got a few questions for JAJ and you other knowledgable types.

Is there an age bracket on the $4.5k per child? We've got a 5 year old who we'll need to get into school and we're hoping to avoid paying silly money as we might not be there more than 6 months - depends on the job. When are the fees payable? Probably up front but I had to ask.

We're planning to apply for PR if things work out - what's a good plan regarding Medicare until then? Is the "reciprocal" thing with the NHS worth relying on or shall we just bite the bullet and pay the Medicare? I can't seem to get a price off their website - any clues how much it might be for a family of 3 and what records we need from UK?

Please excuse my ignorance on these matters. I hope you don't mind me asking such basic questions but the whole "working in Oz" thing has happened pretty fast and we're still rounding up info.

Roger

JAJ

I believe it applies to any child of school age. Check the NSW Education Dept website, start from http://www.nsw.gov.au

I think Medicare is limited under this scheme (but others will know more), and you will almost certainly need health insurance. This will be more expensive as you don't have PR. Also, with even limited Medicare coverage, you have to pay the Medicare levy.

On a 457, I would have thought your employer should commit to cover schooling and health insurance costs.

Jeremy