scrubbedexpat142

We had our (then) 12 year old boiler (& 12 metre flue) replaced about 4 years ago - cost approximately €2700. Since then our gas bill has been reduced by (currently) €27 per month, ie €324 per year. So it will, effectively, pay for itself in a little over 8 years - & I tend to assume a boiler will need to be replaced after 10 years.

Pretty pleased with that.

philat98

You should check where the plumber puts the condensing pipe. My boiler is on an external wall like a lot in Italy. Two winters ago the pipe froze in the night stopping the boiler.

Serrano

Perfect timing this thread. Our boiler (27 years old, now come on someone, I'm sure you can beat that ) is about to be dispatched to boiler heaven - still working, but could do with an acid clean for scale in the heat exchanger, repair of a minor leak in expansion chamber, and a few other niggling bit & pieces).

The interesting bit is the 'detrazione fiscale' by which, if I've understood the details correctly, gives you back 50% or 65% of the cost as a deduction from your taxes over 10 years. I've never looked at this before, but it seems that you pay, let's say, €2000 total. Assuming 65%, I believe you can then deduct 10% of 65% of the cost (i.e. €130) each year from your taxes. I believe it is a straight deduction from the tax you owe, NOT a reduction in your taxable income as is normally done for such things in the UK. So in effect you get back €1300, albeit over 10 years, of the €2000 you have laid out. Seems too good to be true, can somebody (anybody) who's done this confirm that it works.

And now it gets more interesting. There is a company called EnelX (part of the Enel Group - find them at enelxstore.com) who are offering to deduct the entire 50% or 65% from their bill in return for you performing a "Cessione del Credito" in their favour - I presume that this means that you assign the deductions to them. So for a €2000 boiler you pay only €700 or €1000 depending on the type, and they 'inherit' the benefit of the deduction. Also this seems too good to be true, but I can't (yet) see the catch.

I should make it clear I'm not advertising for them, I've given all the details so others can check it out. If it all works I hope to be a satisfied (and less poor than I would otherwise have been) customer

Isakat

Just an update on the boiler situation.

Since the boiler was installed 14 years ago, we installed a termocamino. It transpires when this was done, they should have separated the 2 water circles with 2 scambiatori. So, now to install a new boiler costs 3.600( including boiler 1600 euro plus scambiatori and defangatore and mano d'opera).
We decided to put a new mother board in (450 euro) in the old boiler and see what happens. It worked one day and then stopped. The tecnico came and put a new ignition part at 30 euro and 2 weeks on, the boiler works fine.
We still need to do the work on the system, but it does not seem urgent now as we never use the 2 simultaneously anyway.

Regarding dettrazione, you can only apply for this if the piping system( condensation) goes in a chimney, which in many houses is not possible. So, if everything is not kosher, forget about claiming.

I also learned something else. The new boilers have a much smaller pipe for the water, so if you have 'termosifoni in ghisa' like us, you will have lots of particles of iron in the circulating water which must be cought by a magnetic filter-defangatore. Oh, and if you use the boiler for hot water for the kitchen and bathrooms, ( and not for only heating like ours) you need a small pump that adds drops of ,dolcificatore, which makes hard water soft and protects your boiler from limescale.

Serrano

OK, since my last post I've done a fair amount of research and learnt a lot.
Sort-of true, but not really. The restriction to get the detrazione is that you must be installing a condensing boiler of energy class A or above (50% detrazione) or the same with an "advanced control system" - which seems to mean time clock + thermostat (65% detrazione).
One important part here is the "condensing" .- which means the boiler will have a separate drain pipe, which carries condensate (water) from the flue gases. This needs to go into a drain (not a chimney, a drain - and the distance from the boiler shouldn't be greater than about 4 metres). In most situations this is possible. The other part that is important regards the flue - the requirements here are quite specific, but in individual houses its can normally be arranged without difficulty, whereas in apartments / condominiums it can get trickier.

But if you have used "cessione del credito" you don't claim anything. you just pay the supplier the net price (35% or 50% as applicable) - so as long as your contract with the supplier doesn't contain any get-outs on their side, it's their problem

True on both counts, but costs aren't excessive (I've been quoted €110 and €70 respectively. Tha agevolazione applies to these as well, so net costs at 65% become €39 and €25.

HADENOUGHPIZZA

I think that if you apply to ENEL for this service then it means that they both supply and install the new system . There will be an inital viewing by the technicians and they should neither install , insure or move forward with the credit if there is something not right with the system .

Isakat

To post an update re boiler: we decided to change the mother board at 400 euro cost and the boiler is working fine.

Isakat

Today I will post about another gem of 'service'.

On 12th of January, a pipe burst on the road near our water meter and I called the water company to ask for intervento. Seven days have passed, noone came nor called.Yesterday I called Acea to give them a piece of mind about their shitty service. I never received an explanation, or god forbid an apology from the operator. I did say to her that I will do a denuncia.

This morning on my return from the local Carabinieri station where I made a complaint, I saw vehicles and workmen entering our road. They are subcontractors who are still fixing the problem.
When I told the workmen how long I waited, they said-'ha aspettato anche pocco signora'.

And how much water was wasted in the past 7 days. Acea is making a lot of money from pumping to us filtered water from the Tevere in rusty old disintegrating pipes. The saddest thing is noone can do anything about it. Chi se ne frega.

philat98

Hope you arenot drinking that water.

Isakat

Here I am with another gem of 'customer service' in Italy.

I went to the local petrol station this morning to fill up. There was a tanker there filling up the pump and a parked van of the local rubbish collection company filling in. The man was smoking a cigarette.
I got out of the car and told the station owner that his customer is smoking and he will blow us all up.
He then asked him to put it out.

The man vent to the verge, smoked a bit more then chucked the cigarette end in the flower bed.

I went to him and asked him to pick it up. He is the one who should be cleaning the streets and not fouling. I told him if he did not, I would take photos and send them to the sindaco( by the way, I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone). I did take the pictures after he did not react, then he went to the flower bed and collected the cigarette.

After he drove off, the owner told me that he could not ask him to put it out, to which I said, that I as a customer should not be telling his clients what to do, it is his business and he needs to make sure everyone is safe. I told him if there was an explosion, whose fault would it be?

philat98

Health and safety seems to be low on the priority list in Italy. In our newspaper there have been cherry pickers falling into rivers, cherry pickers cutting through power cables, an exploding canabis lite factory, overturning tractors and various limbs cut off at the steel works.
In my village the man sometimes smokes while he is filling up a car. It is surprising there are not more accidents.

Isakat

Yes, so many people die falling off roofs in construction sites, being crushed by machinery, etc and nothing changes.....